We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

11: Hūd (Part III — WTF moments.)

with 55 comments

Just in case you were wondering about how I actually go about this Quran business, here’s the behind-the-screen scoop.  I start out by reading the chapter once without taking any notes.  Just a quick scan through to get the gist of it and see where it goes.  Then I go through and read it again, this time taking notes in the margins.  And once more so I can compile all of the important verses in my notebook, maybe catch a few things I missed.  Then I’ll lie down on the couch, stare at the ceiling and wonder what the fuck is wrong with people.  And then, after I regain my will to live, I’ll research relevant stuff, group the verses together by theme, maybe make a rough outline to get my thoughts together.  And finally — finally! — I write out the post.

If you see the occasional spelling mistake or shitty grammar, it’s because I’m so sick of thinking about the damn chapter that I hit “publish” without reading, re-reading and running spell check.  Whaddyagunnado?

Anyway, I got to skip most of the above steps for chapter 11, because it was a super easy read.  Unless you’re counting chapter 1, with its grand total of 7 lines, I would say this has been the easiest chapter yet.  Everything easily fell into one of three categories:  Abraham, Noah, and WTF?.  We’ve covered the first two, so it’s WTF? time.  These are basically all of the verses that I wrote WTF? next to in my margins.  Lets dive in, shall we?

It doesn’t take long to wander into WTF? territory.  Check out the first 3 verses from chapter 11:

ALIF LAM RA. This is a Book whose verses are indeclinable and distinct, which comes from One who is most wise and all-knowing,
2. (Proclaiming) that you should worship none but God. Verily I bring to you from Him a message of warning and rejoicing,
3. And that you should seek His forgiveness and turn towards Him. He will bestow the best things of life on you for a time ordained, and favour those with blessings who are worthy of grace. But if you turn away, I fear the punishment of a terrible Day for you.

I? I who? Who’s talking here?  Golly, would you look at that.  It’s our friend, Mohammed!  In the Quran! Referring to himself in first fucking person!

How does that work, exactly?  I mean, this book is the word of God, right?  It says so right there in verse 1 — which comes from One who is most wise and all-knowing. Sure, he talks in third person a lot, but God throws in Us and We, too.  This is his deal.

So, uh, where’s this Mohammed business coming from?  He suddenly chimes in and talks about himself in first person perspective?   Even though the book is the word of God and not the word of Mohammed?  But, um, he says “I.”  How is that not man-made?  And how do the beardos mullahs explain that one away?

It gets even weirder when the POV makes an awkward switch from Mohammed to God in verse 8:

7. It is He who created the heavens and the earth In six spans, and has control over the waters (of life) so that he may bring out the best that everyone of you could do. Yet if you said to them: “You shall certainly be raised from the dead,” the unbelievers will say: “This will be nothing but sorcery.”
8. If We defer their punishment for a certain time, they will say: “What is keeping it back?” And yet, the day it comes, they will not be able to avert it; and what they used to laugh at will encompass them.

He who created the heavens and earth.  God.  Then if you said to themyou as in Mohammed.  And finally We as in God.  All within the span of 2 verses.  The fuck??  I can’t keep up with Mohammed’s multiple personalities.  Lets move along quickly before my head explodes:

5. Look, how they double up their breasts in order to hide from Him. But when they cover themselves up with their garments, He knows what they hide and what they expose. Indeed, He knows the secrets of the hearts.

Is it just me, or is that verse saying that you can’t hide your nekkidness from God?  You can try to cover it up with clothes, but he has ex-ray vision?  Huh?  Check out this hadith about verse 5:

Bukhari, 4404. It is related that Muhammad ibn ‘Abbad ibn Ja’far reported that he heard Ibn ‘Abbas recite, “See how they enfold their breasts…” (11:5) He said, “I asked him about it and he said, ‘Some people used to be embarassed to go to the lavatory and exposed themselves to the sky, and to have intercourse when they were exposed to the sky, and it was sent down about them.”

So people were embarrassed about God watching them poop or have sex?  Giggle.  Man, if they were worried about it before, wait till they read this next verse:

6. There is not a creature that moves on the earth whose nourishment is not provided by God, whose place of sojourning and depositing is not known to Him. All things conform to a manifest law.

God sees everything — he watches you where you live and where you “deposit.”  Yeah, that’s not creepy at all.  Basically it’s saying that you can’t hide your twig & berries from God, so stop peeing with your pants on.  The fact that this was even a problem with Mohammed’s converts kinda goes to show you what kinda retards we’re dealing with.  Maybe all the repetition in the Quran is there for a reason (Duh, wait, so what happened, again?).

7. It is He who created the heavens and the earth In six spans, and has control over the waters (of life) so that he may bring out the best that everyone of you could do. Yet if you said to them: “You shall certainly be raised from the dead,” the unbelievers will say: “This will be nothing but sorcery.”

Two WTF moments in that verse.  First there’s that waters (of life) thing.  What’s with that (of life)? But that’s not even the real issue at hand.  See, in my Quran, there’s a little asterisk next to the word control in control* over the waters (of life).  And that asterisk leads to a footnote that says that this word actually means throne.  And since the shit in parentheticals is usually Ahmed Ali’s attempt to polish a turd, we can get rid of it.  So here’s what the verse should actually say:

It is He who created the heavens and the earth in six spans days, and has a throne over the waters so that he may bring out the best that every one of you could do.

That spans / days thing is the other WTF moment in this verse.  Check out what some other translators have to say:

Yusuf Ali:
(7) He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days – and His Throne was over the waters – that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct.

(7) And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days – and His Throne was upon the water – that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct.

A. J. Arberry:
(7) And it is He who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His Throne was upon the waters — that He might try you, which one of you is fairer in works.

Three for tree on both six days and throne over the waters.  So God’s out there somewhere, hovering above an ocean on his throne, listening to prayers and waiting for judgment day.  It’s a wonder that a fishing boat or cruise shit ship hasn’t mowed that fucker down.  I do have two words that might explain everything:  Bermuda triangle.  What’s that thing floating on the water there?  It looks like some kind of…throne? *Poof*  It was God all along!

By the way, there’s a little contradiction in the Quran about how long it took to create the earth.  7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 50:38, and 57:4 all say 6 days.  But check out chapter 41:

(41:9) Say: “Do you refuse to believe in Him who created the earth in two spans of time, and set up compeers to Him, the Lord of all the worlds?
41:10) He placed firm stabilisers rising above its surface, blessed it with plenty and growth, and ingrained the means of growing its food within it, sufficient for all seekers, in four spans.
41:11) Then He turned to the heavens, and it was smoke. So He said to it and the earth: “Come with willing obedience or perforce.” They said: “We come willingly.”
41:12) Then He created several skies in two spans, and ingrained in each sky its function, decking the nearest heaven with lamps, and guarded it. This has been determined by the mighty and all-knowing.

2 days for the earth + 4 days for the stuff on the earth + 2 days for the skies = 8 days, not 6.  Yusuf Ali apparently starts out his commentary on this section by saying, “This is a difficult passage…” It sure is, YA.  It suuuuuuure is.

This next verse might shed some light on God’s little 6 day / 8 day flub:

12. You may haply omit some of what has been revealed to you, and may be disheartened because they say: “Why was no treasure sent down to him, or an angel accompanied him?” Yet you have been sent to warn alone, for God takes care of everything.

It’s not God.  It’s Mohammed!  Mohammed may “haply omit” some of the revelations.  Haply omit:  accidentally exclude. So God is saying that he reveals things to Mohammed, and then Mohammed sometimes — doh! — leaves out bits and pieces of it.  Even though the book is the infallible word of God?  Double you.  Tee.  Eff.

It all goes back to that doubt and involution stuff back in chapter 2.  This book claims to be free from both — I call bullshit.  Here it is.  In God’s own words.  (Or God’s words, through an angel, through Mohammed, unless he forgot some of it.)

This is not looking good for the book that claims to be the direct word of God.  If Mohammed can accidentally leave shit out, then a) he’s not Mr. Perfect like Muslims claim he is, and b) this book is also not perfect like the Muslims claim it is.  So, uh, Muslims — knock that shit off, willya?  Your own book just admitted it’s got problems.

18. Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God? Such men shall be arraigned before their Lord, and the witnesses will testify: “These are those who imputed lies to God.” Beware! The scourge of God will fall on the unjust,

Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God? Um.  Plenty of people?  What about rapists?  Pedophiles?  Murderers?  Or, hell, maybe those guys are off the hook since Mohammed was pretty much all three rolled up into one big, lovable package.  I’m just sayin’.

117. Your Lord would not surely destroy unjustly human habitations so long as the people are righteous.

So if your house gets destroyed by a hurricane, it has nothing to do with the weather and everything to do with you being a sinner.  That’s how God’s little game works.  By the way, I guess all those Palestinians need to stop their whining.  If they were righteous people, they’d still have their land and their homes, right?  Because God doesn’t unjustly destroy human habitations so long as the people are righteous, right?  Right??

Whatever.  God’s not just — we figured that one out already.  But just in case you needed another verse to add to that collection, check this out:

119. Except those on whom your Lord had mercy for which He has created them. But fulfilled shall be the word of your Lord. “I will fill up Hell with jinns and men.”

I will fill up Hell with jinns and men.  What the fuck?   I mean, seriously, what’s the point?  You go through all of this trouble of creating a world, putting men on it, putting evidence for evolution on it just to confuse everyone, and all of it is just so you can fill up hell with men and jinns?  Really?  If that’s the kind of shit you’re into, why not just make a hell and fill it with people?  Nobody’s going to judge you since, um, nobody else exists.  Why go through this charade to get to the fun stuff?  I’m not even sure if he knows.  Check out this next verse:

120. The histories of apostles that We relate to you are (meant) to strengthen your heart. Through them has the truth come to you, and guidance, and reminder to those who believe.

So, hang on a sec.  Those stories of all the prophets — Noah, Abraham, Shu’aib, etc. — those were meant to strengthen our hearts?  I thought they were just supposed to scare the shit out of us so we’d believe any old thing Mohammed would say?  Oh, wait.  I see.  When it says “you,” it’s not talking about us.  It’s talking about Mo.  He’s supposed to have his heart strengthened by those stories, since the prophet always gets away scot free while his people get butchered by his merciful, kind God.  We really are supposed to be scared shitless and believe anything Mohammed says.  Silly me for thinking God would want to comfort anyone but Mohammed.  Carry on, then.

This next WTF moment is one that kind of changed my life.  It’s why I saved it for last.  This verse is the first thing I found in the Quran that made me genuinely stumped me.  I was 18 and taking my first history of religion class as an elective.  The Ahmed Ali translation I’d purchased — the very same one that I’m reading right now — was an optional purchase on the course syllabus.  I went ahead and got it because I was genuinely interested in reading the Quran (and, um, it was cheap).  I’d never read the Quran in translation before, and 2 pages in, I was already bored.  So I looked up specific verses in the index instead.  Verses about women, sex, hell, prayer.  And when I found this next verse, I was so taken aback that I wrote down “What does this mean?” with an arrow pointing to the verse.  Only I “respected” the Quran back then, so I wrote it down on a post-it and stuck it next to the verse, rather than just jotting it down in the margins.  Weird, right?  It’s hard to believe that was nearly 10 years ago.

Here’s the verse that got me started down the wonderful path to damnation:

114. Stand up for the service of prayer at the two ends of day and the first watch of night. Remember that good deeds nullify the bad. This is a reminder for those who are observant.

I know, I know.  Not very exciting stuff.  But you have to understand that as someone who was taught that it was our duty to pray 5 times a day, this verse came as kind of a shock.  It’s saying that Muslims only have to pray 3 times a day:  morning, evening and night.  So I took to the internets and found out a couple of things, which led to more questions and more research.  Fast forward 10 years to me finding a post-it from my past asking the question that got the ball rolling:  What does this mean? I don’t think I’ll never stop asking.

That’s it.  That’s all I have on chapter 11.  I just read cheapter 12 for the first time last night, and I have to say, I’m pretty geeked about it.  It’s another new story — one that I hadn’t ever heard before, so it should be fun.  And if you need a reason to celebrate:  I’m 35% of the way done with the Quran.  No joke.  35%.  As of this post, I have over a third of the book under my belt.  It’s taken me a solid 3 months to do it, but dadgummit, that’s further than I’ve ever gotten before.  Thanks for hanging in there with me.


Written by kafirgirl

October 1, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Posted in Quran

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55 Responses

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  1. The “throne over the water” is a common theme in the bible and part of the water universe cosmology lifted from older myths like the Enuma Elish.



    October 1, 2008 at 1:58 pm

  2. Hang in there! The good news is each chapter will get slightly easier as it gets shorter…

    Other Michael

    October 1, 2008 at 2:32 pm

  3. Hi Kafir Girl,
    I am a muslim, and I just read your blog. Of course it offensive to me and other Muslim, but I want to correct you a few thing that I know, and I hope it will be helpful for your further digging in the Quran.

    1. Allah is not he or she. There is no gender for Allah, because Allah is not similar with his creation. I know, we refer to Allah as ‘He’ most of the times, because human knowledge are mundane (compared to Allah wisdom), and there is no word to represent it, and we cannot refer Allah as a ‘thing’.

    2. In Quran translation, sometimes Allah refered himself as We, Us , He.. this is because of Arab Language that being used as Quran’s language. In Arabic, when someone so powerful and important, such as King, it refer himself as Us or We, to differ himself with common people. I am a Malay, and in my mother-tongue, when a King refering himself, he refer as Us.

    3. Quran is not created by prophet Muhammad. With human brain, none of us, can create the Holy Quran. Quran is a book, that gave us guidance. If you want to talk to God, read Quran because those words were straight from him to Muhammad, and I can assure you that none of the word is missed.

    4. Quran is the book that gave good news to Allah worshiper, and bad news to those differ. The good news are the heaven and bad of course, hell. None of us can imagine the ‘unseen’ world. Thus, none of us can imagine God.

    5. About the repetition, it is indeed human nature to be reminded several times. If not, we tend to forget.

    6. About there is nothing more wicked than inventing lies about god, yes, it’s true. Of course you will say rapist, robber etc. Think wisely, as you read and stated in your blog, Allah can see everything that you did, thus for those that believe in God, they do not dare to do such thing because the price the have to pay for it at the day of judgment is unbearable.

    7. About your hurricane statement, yes, I learn meteorology and physics. I know the science behind it. Again, think deeply, all of the global warming, and disaster, are due to human deeds. For me to explain it for you, i need to create lengthy essay.

    8. The repetition stories of prophets Nuh(Noah), Ibrahim(Abraham), Shu’aib and many others, indeed for strengthen our heart. To make us humble. To scare the shit out of you? Erm, as I said earlier, Quran was sent to give good news and bad news. Again, think. And, you mention why from thousands of prophet, why only 25 names were stated? (Adam, Idris, Nuh (Noah), Hud, Salleh, Ibrahim (Abraham), Luth, Ismail, Ishaq, Ya’qub, Yusuf (Yousuf), Ayyub, Shu’aib, Musa (Moses), Harun, Dzulkifli, Daud, Sulaiman, Ilyas, Ilyasa, Yunus, Zakaria, Yahya, Isa (Jesus), and finally Muhammad). To ease human, and these prophets are the most important prophet of all times. I already order it sequences from the earliest, Adam to the last prophet, Muhammad. Do you think you can remember 125000 names? And remember their story?

    9. Next, about filling the hell with jinns and men. Why? Why Allah do not create hell and simply put jinns and men inside it? You are funny, you know. You read one third of the book and still did not get the answer yet. He will fill hell with wrongdoers of course. And Earth is just a pitch stop for us, to worship Him.

    I notice you comments are extremely bias. What about the reward that state in the Quran? About heaven? About Allah’s blessing? About being nice to your parent and treat women politely? How can you explain that if prophet Muhammad create this holy book, how on earth does he know about fetus creation? How does he know about earth movement? About the Sun and the Moon?

    Kafir Girl,

    When you open the holy Quran with your heart to find fault, which is none, still, you will deny every single word from it. That is nature. Unless, one day, you read the Quran because you’re seeking for the truth, without being skeptical and sarcastic. We cannot study the Quran single handed.

    I want to give you a challenge, read the Quran without prejudice, study it and do not interpret it from your own interpretation (you need to ask someone that know about Quran when you found something that you do not understand), read it till the end. And, when you not reading it anymore, you will missed it. Trust me. In case you find it funny to trust someone that completely stranger, trust yourself.


    October 1, 2008 at 4:40 pm

  4. Wow, an offended Muslim. That’s the first one I’ve ever had! ….oh wait. Nevermind.

    1. There is no Allah. He’s a figment of your imagination. I call him a “he” because that is what my translation of the Quran says he is. Now if the book I was reading said God was a hermaphrodite, I might call him a s/he or a s/him. Book says “he,” I say “he.”

    2. The royal “We” is not something exclusive to Arabic as you’re suggesting. They do it in English, too. Re-read the verse you’re referring to. You missed the “I” part that I’m talking about.

    3. “With human brain, none of us, can create the Holy Quran.” Bullshit. That’s nothing but Muslim propaganda.

    “…I can assure you that none of the word is missed.”

    Prove it. You make a claim, you better provide some hard evidence. “I assure you” means jack fucking shit to me, thanks.

    4. None of us can imagine God? Bullshit. People have been imagining God for centuries before the Quran even came along. Again, you make claims like they’re facts and you show no evidence of anything other than your opinion. Which, again, means jack shit to me.

    5. About the repetition — reminding once or twice is OK. Repeating the same story in every other chapter, often with glaring differences and mistakes…well, you said it: it’s human nature.

    6. Again, proof? You have none? That’s what I thought.

    7. Proof? Again?

    8. FYI, I did not say that the unbearably-repetitive stories of the prophets scare the shit out of me. I said it is their intention to scare the shit out of me. I’m no more scared of the Quran stories than I am of the boogie man who lives under my bed.

    9. It looks like you didn’t understand what I wrote about filling hell up with men and jinns. Try re-reading?

    I notice you comments are extremely bias. What about the reward that state in the Quran? About heaven? About Allah’s blessing?

    I have a post on heaven & hell. Feel free to read it. Heaven’s really not all that exciting and hell shows up way more.

    About being nice to your parent and treat women politely?

    Covered the first one, the second one doesn’t exist.

    How can you explain that if prophet Muhammad create this holy book, how on earth does he know about fetus creation? How does he know about earth movement? About the Sun and the Moon?

    Oh fucking puh-lease. There’s an entire post on the fetus creation bullshit. Seriously, you might want to read more than one post before you come here and lecture me on what I should and should not write about.

    OK, seriously, you read one comment from a Quran-thumping Muslim, you’ve read em all. I lost interest somewhere around “with your heart.” I do not read with my heart — I read with my eyes and my brain, and that’s good enough for me.

    If you find my comment “biased,” go read a Muslim apologist’s blog. Actually, wait, it looks like you’ve been reading plenty of those already. How about this — feel free to stop reading. And if you’re trying to save me, don’t bother, thanks.


    October 1, 2008 at 5:09 pm

  5. Also, Nissa, fair warning: read the comment policy and stick to it. I find Godspeak and hellspeak unfuckingbelieveably annoying and I won’t put up with it.


    October 1, 2008 at 5:12 pm

  6. Regarding that throwaway line under number nine, Nissa… So earth is like a pitch station where everyone has to worship god?

    That’s like arriving in Denver International and worshiping the baggage claim which may or may not have your luggage.


    October 1, 2008 at 5:20 pm

  7. I was challenged in the same way as Nissa challenged you by a good but very Christian friend. He gave me a bible and we read, studied it and discussed it each day. He believed that if I read it (as an adult) and truly understood it I would run from atheism into the arms of god. Instead I was blown away by how much worse religion was then I had ever imagined. I have since became a very active core hard atheist, it is not enough to just ignore the idea of god, it must be destroyed! Be careful what you pray for!


    October 1, 2008 at 6:24 pm

  8. I agree with Nissa. God has been kind and merciful for he has granted her an obedient and submissive mind.

    Kafir-girl, on the other hand, has a seal upon her heart. And since God can see through her clothes, she’s going to hell and she’s gonna get the cheap seats too.

    Open your eyes KG and see (like Nissa does) that:
    1. You have to read the Quran “with your heart” not brains. Those just get in the way.
    2. That you should “not find fault, which is none”. If you don’t look for gaps you won’t find any.
    3. “Still, you will deny every single word from it.” Surely you think it was sorcery although “clear proofs exist”.
    4. “You should read the Quran without being skeptical” or logical or asking for proofs beyond what has already been decreed as proof.
    5.”We cannot study the Quran single handed”. Its not as easy as rocket-science or neuro-science which can be brought-down to observation and evidence. It was God’s wisdom narrated to a semi-literate person who recited things. And several decades later someone came up with a paper, pencil and a binder.
    6. “I want to give you a challenge, read the Quran without prejudice” (meaning just intone the words without thinking too deeply).
    7. “Study it and do not interpret it from your own interpretation” since you are obviously one on whose heart a seal hath been set.
    8. “You need to ask someone that know about Quran when you found something that you do not understand” (like Mullah-Omar or OBL) , read it till the end (meaning your end).
    9. “And when you not reading it anymore, you will miss it.” Yeah… you will not know what to do with your time or the power to reason or the education and training that was wickedly thrust upon you by SATAN himself (or herself).
    10. And Global-warming is created by God for he is all-knowing, all-wise and all-merciful.


    October 1, 2008 at 6:53 pm

  9. Nissa for VP.


    October 1, 2008 at 7:05 pm

  10. KG – another slam-dunk post – great stuff!

    I think you may have misspelled a word…
    Re: “It’s a wonder that a fishing boat or cruise shit hasn’t mowed that fucker down.”

    Did you mean to say cruise ‘ship’?


    October 1, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  11. GAD, me too. In all honesty, I wasn’t a very active atheist when I started reading the Quran. 1/3 of the way in and the book has turned me into a fucking activist.

    Rahul, FTW, sir. FTW. A++++.

    Kics, I did mean cruise ship, but I type the word shit so often, that it just happened. Teehee! I’ll fix it.


    October 1, 2008 at 7:40 pm

  12. Nissa, I noticed you went through and divebombed comments on pretty much every other post I’ve ever written. Posts from 3 months ago that have been inactive for a while now. And pretty much every single comment was “God is real because blahblahblah and you are wrong.” It’s all Godspeak and hellspeak. Again, read the comment policy. And maybe, just for giggles, go look up the words sarcasm, humor, evidence and proof.


    October 1, 2008 at 7:50 pm

  13. Nissa, read the Koran without skepticism? Why? Skepticism is a valuable tool for determining for ourselves what is true and what is not. Otherwise we’d be going “well it doesn’t make sense to me but this other person says it’s true so I’ll just turn off my brain and believe them.” Skepticism is the best defense for protecting ourselves against the cynical or deluded figures who try to enslave us to their particular dogma or ism.

    See this list of charismatic founders of various religions around the world.


    Read their stories.


    October 1, 2008 at 9:11 pm

  14. read Quran because those words were straight from him to Muhammad, and I can assure you that none of the word is missed

    Because obviously you personally checked it up with god and he confirmed that it’s all there (even though *the book itself* says it isn’t). Care to show us the e-mail or memo he sent you?


    October 1, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  15. Crystal, your list isn’t up to date. Last week’s was Tony Alamo

    srsly, we here are trying to get an intelligent answer to: what is the difference between a hadith and a surah? Why are people so sure of some clear difference between them?


    October 1, 2008 at 9:29 pm

  16. “Behind them” means “before them”. (BuckHairy 4449)


    October 1, 2008 at 9:41 pm

  17. Nissa … wow.

    I notice you comments are extremely bias. What about the reward that state in the Quran? About heaven? About Allah’s blessing? About being nice to your parent and treat women politely? How can you explain that if prophet Muhammad create this holy book, how on earth does he know about fetus creation? How does he know about earth movement? About the Sun and the Moon?

    Reward in heaven? Houris? Serving boys? Wine? Streams? Hello?

    Treat women politely? Like Muhammad did? Like raping them? Enslaving them? Allowing them to be beaten? Stoning them to death? Limiting their role to baby factory? Preventing them from having greater roles in society and stupid dress codes (plus health problems)? Unequal inheritance? And, of course, child brides? If I ever treat a woman as badly as Muhammad did, I hope someone shoots me. Muhammad today would be a criminal.

    Muhammad made up his little holy book just like any author today makes up a book. Although authors today tend to be MUCH better in fact-checking, plots, etc. Muhammad certainly didn’t know about fetus creation (although he came up with several attempts that weren’t quite right). Nor about the movements of the Sun and Moon.

    You do realize he said the Sun and Moon revolve around the Earth in fixed paths, don’t you? Firstly, the Sun doesn’t revolve around the Earth (he was way off on that one). Secondly, the Moon is drifting away from the Earth. Currently at about 3.8cm/year. This means the path is not fixed (constant). Eventually, the Earth won’t even have the Moon. It’ll have flown off into space.

    Really. I hate sounding so bitter, but I hate the lies, too. Please do some fact checking, but it is obvious if you are a fan of the Quran, facts and checking aren’t high on your priority list.


    PS. I did try reading the Quran without bias and skepticism (long story there), but that quickly faded. No reasonably moral person can buy into what he is selling.


    October 1, 2008 at 9:50 pm

  18. Why should anyone be ashamed to be naked in private – or of the act of defecation – if god had created us? It wouldn’t make sense if he knows what he ‘designed’ beforehand.

    Usually i liken this to people that promote religious sexual repressive dogma. If sex is so bad than why didn’t god create alternate means of reproduction, like jumping rope or patting your head while rubbing your belly?


    October 1, 2008 at 9:57 pm

  19. Nissa you do not understand. God has put a seal on Kafirgirl’s heart so that she will not understand and be punished and so that his glory will be revealed. This is because he is most wise, compassionate, merciful, and hee hee.. ha ha..oh my..I knew I couldn’t finish that with a straight face. :)

    Great blog Kafirgirl! Most instructive, and I wish it had been around 6 years ago when I was debating Islam with a former coworker. He gave me a translated (Muhammad Faroog-c-Azam Malik, 1997) copy of the Quran, and I got a few chapters into it..and wow..umm..well, there were so many other projects to do, you know.


    October 2, 2008 at 1:33 am

  20. Hilarious post and even more hilarious comment by Nissa…keep up the good work KG


    October 2, 2008 at 2:52 am

  21. Priest, because only some of us can pat our head and rub our belly at the same time :0

    Seriously Rahul & Nissa, I think you need to read Kafir girls posts with your heart, you will see that her intention is to free you from your prison.

    Sean the Blogonaut

    October 2, 2008 at 2:57 am

  22. “Yet if you said to them: “You shall certainly be raised from the dead,” the unbelievers will say: “This will be nothing but sorcery.””
    WTF? I will say: “You are telling nonsense!”.
    One more error in the koran.


    October 2, 2008 at 3:50 am

  23. @Sean the Blogonaut: Rahul was being sarcastic.


    October 2, 2008 at 8:19 am

  24. Crystal, I don’t get that either. Why shouldn’t someone read it with a healthy dose of skepticism? According to Muslim stories (and I’m pretty sure they’re just that), just hearing this book being read aloud converted people, some of whom had been opponents of Islam up to that point. If it can do that, then surely it can stand up to the skepticism of a snarky ex-Muslim?

    Mauro, I might have to take a screen grab of all of Nissa’s 8 OTHER comments that ended up in my spam box. It’s the same thing. “I assure you,” “Believe me,” “Read with your heart.” What a crock of shit. Yiiah. And they just don’t get it.

    Watercat, BuckHairy? Bahahaha! As for hadith vs surahs, the clear difference between them is that 99.99% (totally made up statistic) of Muslims believe the Quran is true. A lot of Muslims also believe in hadith, but there are some who now insist that the hadith are soooooo wacky and out there that they must be fictitious. (Um. K, I say the same about the Quran.) And some Muslims have a favorite compiler (BuckHairy is the darling, by far) so they’ll only believe his. Or they’ll only listen to what some beardo scholar has to say in the matter and buy everything he pushes.

    So in short: I don’t get it either.

    Michael, you little infidel. Mohammed didn’t just “allow them to be beaten.” He beat Aisha himself, remember? Ahh hadith! I absolutely hate the argument she uses towards the very end. You’re not reading it right. Oh shit, you’re right — here, lemme just switch off the ol’ brain there, so it doesn’t get in the way. WTF x 10.

    Priest, to add to your point, I also hate the argument that people are born gay but it’s a test of their faith. If God didn’t want homosexuality, why make people gay?? Why make sex such a huge part of human nature? And, wtf, why make it so much effing fun?

    TimJ, thanks so much. Glad you’re enjoying it. I haven’t seen the Malik translation. If it’s got thee’s and thou’s in it, I’d be out after the first page!

    Vani, thank you. I think Nissa wins the funnies fights. I mean, she’s not even trying.

    Sean, Rahul’s poe’d you! …he poe’d me too for a second. And then I had a “Hey, wait a sec,” moment.

    Rahul, seriously, still laughing at that one. And another 5 for that VP comment!

    Kereng, an error in the Quran?? Blasphemy! Someone call a mullah!


    October 2, 2008 at 8:24 am

  25. Kafirgirl said: “What does this mean? I don’t think I’ll ever stop asking.”

    I read that sentence and damn near applauded. I think it’s likely that there is no better question than “What does this mean?”. It’s the complete opposite of reading with your heart, believing before you assess the evidence and whatever other silliness Nissa was wittering on about.


    October 2, 2008 at 10:14 am

  26. I think plenty of religious people do ask “What does this mean?”. The only thing they ignore is the possibility that it doesn’t mean anything at all. Hence all the silliness about numbers and their magic meanings and convoluted aneurism-causing explanations for miracles and other assorted rubbish. It’s all so tiresome.

    Having wasted my childhood and much youth on religion, it’s just depressing that so many more people are stuck there still. It’s like trying to wake a drugged sleeper in nightmare.


    October 2, 2008 at 11:45 am

  27. Interesting: I misread “God’s not just” as “God’s just not.” Must be a Freudian slip of the eye. Especially since people debating God’s pronoun pisses me off in exactly the same way as my sister yelling at people on a TV show–they’re not real. That’s a lot of energy going to waste–can we please get pissed about things that actually exist?

    (Not to imply that I mean your blog, KafirGirl–this is where I come when I think I’m alone in the world and everyone else are monkeys in pants.)

    Sarah Beedoo

    October 2, 2008 at 1:20 pm

  28. “you need to ask someone that know about Quran when you found something that you do not understand”

    But these incredibly knowledgable people are the most deluded of them all! So why on earth should we trust that they’re the ones who will enlighten us?! And please! What Nissa said about earth being a pitch stop so we can worship God is bullshit. If God created you solely so you can worship him, it means he’s a narcisstic bastard who doesn’t deserve to be worshipped! Being put on earth so you can worship someone is like being born into slavery. No thanks! Gah, people like Nissa piss me off!


    October 2, 2008 at 1:20 pm

  29. Actually, Nissa DOES say something useful, two words at the very end of her post. Appropriate for those lost within the confines of some holy *cough* book:

    Trust yourself.

    To which I’d like to add a quote of Nietzsche:

    I conjure you, my brethren, remain true to the earth, and believe not those who speak unto you of superearthly hopes! Poisoners are they, whether they
    know it or not.


    October 2, 2008 at 1:34 pm

  30. Being put on earth so you can worship someone is like being born into slavery.

    Well, Islam does allow slavery…


    October 2, 2008 at 1:39 pm

  31. Oz said: “I think plenty of religious people do ask “What does this mean?”.”

    Yes, you’re right, but they only ask it once, and the answer is always “It means God”. I think the trick is, like Kafirgirl, not to stop asking it.


    October 2, 2008 at 3:44 pm

  32. Manigen / Oz, I think religious people ask the question with a specific answer in mind. Know what I mean?

    Sarah Beedoo, me too. Not just because he doesn’t exist though. I hate it because there’s no fucking way God of the Bible or Quran is a woman. Not I mean women in the Quran are half a notch above farm animals. God’s a man, man. A mean old bastard of a man.

    Sarah, agreed x 10.

    DutchA, that’s the thing. I do trust myself. I don’t need some fucking imam to interpret the Quran for me. That’s what people like Nissa don’t get.


    October 2, 2008 at 3:52 pm

  33. First of all, KG, great blog. I’ve been following this from the beginning, and you never fail to be both insightful and entertaining.

    Re Nissa’s defense of the Quran: an important test of any argument is that it is invalid if it can lead to an absurd conclusion. To wit:

    Why aren’t you a Christian? Clearly your judgment is clouded and you already think the Bible is wrong, so you will see it that way if you read it. If only you read the Bible with an open heart and desire to seek truth, you will see that it is perfect. This will be clear if you study it without prejudice and let experts interpret it for you.

    You’re just in denial, dear Nissa.

    But you don’t believe it. Because it’s bullshit.

    As is the Quran.


    October 2, 2008 at 10:35 pm

  34. after reading Nissa’s comment and the rebuttal from the rest, KG i have a request. Can you publish these kinda comments once in a while.. u know just to spice up life.. err i mean blog. Nissa’s post was appropriate for this post (WTF moments) :-D

    @Rahul.. in a few days i think we might end up with Sarah ‘Nissa’ Palin as the veep. If i could, I want a ‘Kodak Moment’ of KG’s reaction when that happens.. priceless.

    I am off to go pray now.. u know with me being sent to the earth just for praying so that i can get nice boys rubbing my feet in heaven.


    October 3, 2008 at 12:11 pm

  35. If i could, I want a ‘Kodak Moment’ of KG’s reaction when that happens.. priceless.

    No you don’t. I would shit myself twice and then my head would explode. But, honestly, I’m not worried about it anymore. McCain’s been even more of a codger than usual lately, and people are over the whole Palin thing. Obama’s winning this one, hands down.


    October 3, 2008 at 12:26 pm

  36. never ever underestimate Rove and Cheney.


    October 3, 2008 at 1:05 pm

  37. I’m trying to be an optimist, Shashi. Don’t kill this for me!!


    October 3, 2008 at 1:19 pm

  38. The religious say read with your heart and your mind will follow, why would they do anything different when voting……..


    October 3, 2008 at 1:30 pm

  39. gosh jolly… ya gawt it right GAD.. dog garn it.

    /Sorry KG.. couldn’t help it. THAT voice somehow got lodged into my brain and it’s not coming out.

    back to topic at hand..


    October 3, 2008 at 3:59 pm

  40. “But if you turn away, I fear the punishment of a terrible Day for you.”

    Looky– seventh century concern-trolling! :D

    The Perky Skeptic

    October 3, 2008 at 10:14 pm

  41. Yet if you said to them: “You shall certainly be raised from the dead,” the unbelievers will say: “This will be nothing but sorcery.”

    Not that it won’t happen, just that it’s sorcery. Which, uh, it kind of is. Divine magic is still magic, right?

    You know, if I were God, I might want to turn off my omnipotence when it came to people using the bathroom. And I could totally do that, because I’d also be omnipotent, right? Then I’d make a rock so heavy I couldn’t lift it.

    And God’s throne was “upon the waters”? Is that like how a seat in an airplane can be used as a flotation device?


    October 4, 2008 at 2:22 pm

  42. “Quran is not created by prophet Muhammad. With human brain, none of us, can create the Holy Quran.”

    Verily we have sent many signs to you, but you became oh mankind haughty and disdainful of the miracles of your Lord.
    To the blogosphere we sent Nissa, if only you would acknowledge the truth of it.
    And when Nissa held fast to the message of the ONE, the hypocrites mocked. Know that Allah (saw) is wise, all seeing, a molten cyber fire has been prepared, viruses, worms, spy ware, this is the wrath you have incured. Will you not then acknowledge the oneness of his majesty?
    And there was one who proclaimed her hatred of the Lord of the Worlds, Jasmine bint Pakistana, the liar and mocker who made a sport of religion. Verily, she was slammed by her Creator and her computer gutted by a virus. While Nissa took refuge in Allah (saw) and her computer remains ok.
    Sura x- ‘The Bloggers’ or ‘Those who Write Mischief’.

    See Nissa, it’s not as hard as u think and the higher u get, the easier it is.


    October 4, 2008 at 7:56 pm

  43. Kafir Girl and the rest,

    I believe the one being denial here is not me. It is you.
    For Steve, yes, it is correct that Earth is just pitch station for us. When Allah create us, it just for one thing.. to worship Him and become caliph in this whole world because, out of all Allah great creation, out standard is the highest. That’s is why after Adam created, Allah ordered all angels to prostrate to Adam and only satan refuse to do so because he was so proud that he was made from fire and Adam was made from soil. That’s when Allah cursed him and he swore to Allah that he will lead all Adam generation to hell.

    When I said that Earth is a pitch stop for us to prepare ourselves for eternal life after death, it does not mean we have to pray 24/7. To worship Allah is not that hard. When you being nice, being kind to others and you already gain a good deed. When you are feeding your family and treat everyone fairly, because you are scared of Allah punishment and want Allah bless, you are considered worshiping him. When you are working and do not take bribe, you are worshiping Him. There’s a lot of other things that you can do in order to worship Him.

    Kafir Girl,
    There’s no way people can imagine God. Those that have been imagining God never get the picture right. They are based from things that that have seen. Example of the pagan, most of Pagan god are similar to something from earth, like monkeys or elephants, women or men.

    For Jasmine,
    Yes, I do took refuge in Allah (saw). Because He is the only one that can save me and help me from everything.

    So, let’s back to Kafir Girl respond for my reply,

    1. Yes, there is Allah. It’s not figment of my imagination. And yes, in the book He refer to himself as He, I, Us and We. Still, it does not mean it was written by Muhammad. Muhammad was illiterate and obviously he cannot create it by himself. And, during that age, most of Arab were illiterate.

    2. None of the word is missing. During the caliph era, most of Muslim were hafiz (remember the Quran by heart). And caliph that bind the whole Quran was Muhammad trusted friend and he assured that all the word are not missing. If you want some proof, why don’t you look for the oldest Quran mushaf and compared with current printed Quran. If there is any missing word, I will convert to atheist myself and send it to Google. Happy? And for GAD, yeah, you said it yourself to careful what I wish for, hm.. if there is no God, who will granted my wish?

    3. Again, about the repetition. Told twice is Ok but told a few times is not OK? You are equaling God repetition with your friend stories, aren’t you? The reason why it’s repeat over and over again, not only for your brain to accept, but for your heart too. When your heart remember it, you will remember it forever. Just like you remember your someone special. Because your heart remember them, that’s why they will never fade away.

    4. OK. About the hurricane etc. Nobody until now can explain clearly how precipitation occur. The closest of course, The Bergeron Process, collision and coalescence, and condensation and convection. But, still, there are gaps. Nobody can predict weather accurately. Even RH is over 100% and CCN are high, there are always possibility that precipitation will not occur. Thunderstorm, where will the lightning strike, no one knows. There are some explanation about positive and negative charge, but there are no scientific evidence for that. And because of human activities (I am sure all of you are well-known about this), global warming is getting severe. Who release all the carbon monoxide, sulfur containing substance to the atmosphere? We are. With temperature increase (and some part decrease) even e few degrees, the result still monstrous. Because temperature have direct impact to RH. Well, you might ask(i bet you are asking the same question right now), where does God roles in here? The answers, 1. He is the one that create this system. Creating the chemistry and physics behind all this.(You are not going to buy that evolution is the reason, aren’t you?) 2. He determine where the wind blows (yeah, there are Coriolis effects, gradient force etc. but none can predict exactly) 3. It’s up to Him the force or speed for the wind. No one can do it. 3. The earthquake/ natural disaster are common sign of aging Earth. Muhammad has clearly stated what will happen when the end of the world approaching. From Sahih Bukhari, end of world will not be approaching until, a lot of knowledge being ignore, lots of earthquake, lots of chaos, lots of violation and killing.

    5. You are more scared of boogie man under your bed? And the only harm the boogie man can do for you is make you wet your pants. I think you watch Supernatural with your heart more than you read the Quran.

    And for Jasmine,
    I think your sura ‘The Bloggers’ only applied for this decade of computer. Pity.


    October 5, 2008 at 3:17 am

  44. Nissa, if Muslims have Taqwah how come they are doing all the abuse against women? Where is taqwah then?
    It’s obvious, Taqwah is simply a device to control womens’ minds to dominate our bodies.
    What are Muslim men afraid of? Not Allah- that’s forsure, they are just afraid of only one thing- women thinking and thusly acting for ourselves.
    All ure stuff about Islam and little stories and annecdotes, it’s nothing, it’s just part of a belief system that is meaningless.
    U are telling about hurricanes etc. Do you know that the ulema blamed the people of South East Asia for the tsunami cos of their ‘sins’. Pathetic!
    Nissa, Allah is not helping u, he-it- (actually it’s a mental projection of the male head of the family -state), doesn’t exist. He is only helping u in the sense that it provides a framework for understanding the world u live in, but here’s the problem, it’s a myth, silly childlike stories, it is helping u to survive, but it’s like drugs, it’s not really helping u- it’s survival by delusion.
    Actually, me little sura the bloggers is in the Qu’ran, think of Asma bint Marwan or anyone else who opposed Muhammad- they got either murdered or black listed in the verses of the Holy Qu’ran.Doesn’t that tell u something?
    If u really think the ignorant and stupid Qu’ran knows anything about physics then u just don’t know the Qu’ran.
    This is what we are dealing with when we are talking with persons such as u Nissa, low levels of education, silly and foolish attitude and very poor awareness even of their own religion’s rise, which u know absolutely nothing about, cos Islam obviously hides its origins- and u aren’t ever able to ask cos ure mind is chained.
    Now with Pakistani girls when i am chatting in Urdu, of course, i go through the same levels of relaity, but deep down, most normal persons know Islam like all religions is just a male control device and one day all women will wake up and throw this lies aside, and i believe us Pakistanis will be the first to achieve that cos this is our destiny as we are the most TOP CLASS personages in Asia (like everyone knows also).
    Ok then, bye bye, hope u get it or no?


    October 5, 2008 at 4:47 am

  45. Nissa

    1) Mo was illiterate, but allah and that angel who spoke to Mo ? I mean given the inconsistencies and absurdities and downright blunders.

    2) I wonder if U’ve heard about the latest transcripts that have been recently unearthed in Yemen? Apparently it’s not just a few words missing in quran, it’s entire chapters.

    3) Thank U, repeat to Urself anything under the sun, every damned day of Ur life and it will seep in and merge into Ur soul, no matter how ridiculous or foreign.

    4) In that case the end of the world doesn’t seem to near yet. Coz U muslims will never allow for other possibilities of ‘knowledge’, the tenets of other religions and sciences and cultures, U guys will never admit them, and ignorance will keep us on this contaminated ( U know why of course ) earth for a long time, although I must admit U guys sure are taking care of the rest …. killing, chaos and confusion. By the way, if all that bi-chemistry and geo-science was available to U guys, why did it take the ‘infidel’ scientists to discover it all? As an aside, I’m sure Ur perfect remedy still is camel urine and dust masks, all lavishly strewn on a swirling carpet of dunes for U, longish a carpet rather, since the earth is flat acc. to quran, god sure is some weaver … spinning yarn after yarn …

    5) I could sleep with wet pants any day, but living a sorry existence with a soggy soul and a dampened heart (courtesy quran and islam) ?

    U can choose to be ignorant but it is not an excuse.


    October 5, 2008 at 4:56 am

  46. 4 ) Carpet weaver of course … **


    October 5, 2008 at 4:59 am

  47. “2. None of the word is missing. During the caliph era, most of Muslim were hafiz (remember the Quran by heart). And caliph that bind the whole Quran was Muhammad trusted friend and he assured that all the word are not missing. If you want some proof, why don’t you look for the oldest Quran mushaf and compared with current printed Quran. If there is any missing word, I will convert to atheist myself and send it to Google. ”

    Ok Nissa. U assert that there is no missing word in Quran. Isnt it? Let us examine ur claim.
    [004:003] If you are afraid that you might be unfair to the orphan girls , then marry women you like _ two, or three, or up to four of them. However, if you fear that you cannot maintain equality and justice then have one wife, and whatever your right hand owns _ . That way you are more likely to avoid injustice.

    Please read the above ayat carefully. What is the connection between being fair or unfair to the Orphan girls and taking not more than 4 wives? The above ayat starts with one topic…fairness to orphan girls and without completing it jumps to another topic..marrying not more than 4.Obviously, some words are missing in this ayat.

    Another ayat for ur perusal:
    “[035:008] How about the one whose bad deeds are made to appear adorable to him, so he considers them good? Allah throws on the wrong path whomever He wants, and He guides whom He wants. So do not feel sorry for them, and do not grieve. Allah is well Aware of what they do.”
    “In its Arabic version, the first part looks like Allah is comparing the person whose evil deeds are made nice looking to him with…one would expect a comparison with a genuinely good person. But by the time Allah reached this part, He has forgotten completely about the comparison issue and moved on to talk about something else.”

    So, something is obviously missing in this ayat?


    October 5, 2008 at 5:10 am

  48. The above comments on verse 35:8 are by a Syrian apostate Mumin Salih. Further, u r saying that Mo was illiterate.Did he remain illiterate till he died? Please let us know.


    October 5, 2008 at 5:12 am

  49. Again the boogie man any day … look at what quran does ..I do not feel obligated to believe that the same god who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use … what cost nissa ? Why do U want to end up being dribbling, rotting vegetable? That Ur comments end up here and that U don’t rant and rave about the superiority of islam as muslims are usually want to do proves U have hope yet … no one’s asking U to convert or renounce … just learn to toy with other possibilities ..

    Listen, O uninformed, a man has the ability to write a book, the book does not have any ability to create a man


    October 5, 2008 at 5:26 am

  50. Nissa is a political hijabi and i could tell u tons of stuff about their attitudes, hypocrisy and general self serving stupidity. The Political Hijabi’s only role is to be cheerleader and justifier of male oppressions while desperately hoping her Islam can secure her a place out- to study in the west where she can do her da’wah (while having the freedoms she denies to other muslim women), or just to secure a husband.
    In both cases- PATHETIC.


    October 5, 2008 at 5:28 am

  51. In reply to Nissa’s latest diatribe (although I really shouldn’t bother):

    When you are working and do not take bribe, you are worshiping Him.

    Wait, do I have to actively refuse a bribe, or just not take them in general? If the latter, then I’m bound for houri and honey! Never mind that I’ve never been offered a bribe.

    There’s no way people can imagine God. Those that have been imagining God never get the picture right. They are based from things that that have seen. Example of the pagan, most of Pagan god are similar to something from earth, like monkeys or elephants, women or men.

    So God is so awesome as to be unimaginable by humans, yet petty and selfish enough to create an entire species just to kiss His ass? That seems a bit incongruous to me.

    2. So you think the people who memorized all this stuff never made a mistake? You have a much higher estimation of the human memory than I do.

    4-1. Evolution? Why would a biological theory have anything to do with meteorology?

    4-2. Then how come the wind speed and force only ever change in scientifically explainable ways? If we ever see a hurricane or tornado stop abruptly with no ill effects, THEN we can talk.

    4-3. Haven’t those same things been happening throughout all of history?


    October 5, 2008 at 11:47 am

  52. Guess i was wrong, Nissa DOES read comments. It would be a more fun conversation if she didn’t sound like a muslim Palin. She doesn’t have to deconvert, but it’s like she’s not even paying attention to what she reads and attempts to respond to.


    October 5, 2008 at 8:39 pm

  53. i need to stop putting shit in caps like Nissa. i feel real fucking annoying.


    October 5, 2008 at 8:58 pm

  54. KG,

    This is GOD himself writing this response. I was kinda getting boreed sitting on my throne over the ocean and thought I would just drop in to say ‘Holler’…

    Coming back to my words that I tried to spread through my main man ‘Mo’…u just cant stand it do ya???….thats y I have reserved a concubine for ya in HELL(oh,btw we also sometimes refer to it as the White House)…

    Now for Nissa…i m extremely pleased with ya and u will be getting a place in esteemed heaven where u will get to serve as the main stripper for all the jihadis.

    Now for all the hurricane/tornado stuff that u guys were discussing abt..i just wanted to say…SORRY abt that….i had bad gas after i ate at Mo’s tenth..uh..eleventh..uh…bachelor party..Again Sorry abt that..

    Enugh of this…get back to praying if you want an afterlife filled with strippers and whores and handsome assholes(also pronounced jihadis)..

    With all my Love and Regards,

    PS: MO says hi to Nissa…he is already planning to marry you.


    October 9, 2008 at 4:53 pm

  55. Hahahahha… I must second that .. I’ve heard muslim women claim that it would be an honour to marry Mo. They do take the cake and gobble it too, then look to Western medicine to cure them of indigestion.


    October 13, 2008 at 10:01 am

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