KafirGirl

We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

11: Hūd (Part I — What do you mean this isn’t Highlander?!)

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I take back what I said about chapter 11 being just like chapter 10 only elevener.  Much to my surprise, chapter 11 actually introduces a new story(!!!) to the Quran.  Sort of.  It’s more like a rehashing of an older story with a bunch of new details.  It’s a little Tarentino-ish.  Here’s something that already happened — now lets go see what happened before that happened.  Does that make sense to anyone but me?  No?  OK.  Lets dive right in anyway.

(69) Our angels came to Abraham with good news, and said: “Peace on you. “Peace on you too,” said Abraham, and hastened to bring a roasted calf.
(70) When they did not stretch their hands towards it he became suspicious and afraid of them.

You heard it here first, folks:  angels don’t eat.  If you offer food to someone and he doesn’t want any, it isn’t because he’s not hungry — it’s because he’s obviously an angel.  And he’s obviously not a she either because, shit, this is the Quran we’re talking about here.  I realize I haven’t read the entire thing, but I’ve read enough to know this much:  women in the Quran are confined to three roles.

  1. Wife of Someone al-Important
  2. Mother of Important ibn-Person
    and
  3. Houri.  No al’s or ibn’s here.  Just plain old Houri.

Prove me wrong.

They said: “Do not be afraid. We have been sent to the people of Lot.”

Double you.  Tee.  Eff.  I read this and my eyebrows raised so far up that I wore my own forehead as a beret.  I was stunned.  Abraham and Lot were contemporaries?  What the?  I had this idea in my head that prophets were like Highlander.  There can only be one. But nope.  Apparently God can send down several prophets all at once and still manage to have them all fail.  Check out what the Bible says about Lot and Abraham:

Genesis 13:1-18
“There was a strife between the herdmen of Abram’s cattle and the herdmen of Lot’s cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.”

So it turns out Lot and Abraham were BFF, but they kind of broke up.  Keep that in mind, because the Quran’s take on things is, as usual, a little different.  More on that later.

(71) His wife who stood near, laughed as We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac of Jacob.
(72) She said: “Woe betide me! Will I give birth when I am old and this my husband be aged? This is indeed surprising!”

OK, what the hell is with all the post-menopausal women getting knocked up in the Bible and Quran?  Everyone is barren and desperate to have children.  We’ve already seen this come up a few times before.  For example, this same exact scenario happened to Zachariah’s nameless wife back in chapter 3.  What gives?

Are there no women who would think, “We were planning on traveling when we retire next year” or “I’m old enough to be a grandmother“?  Or “Shit, I’ve never even wanted kids”? Where are the women who smash the pregnancy test against the bathroom wall because they’re pissed?  My factory’s closed, goddamnit!

Nobody in the Quran does that?  Seriously?  I find that hard to believe.  Then again, I find a lot of stuff in the Quran hard to believe.  And another thing, if getting an older lady pregnant is all it takes, there are tons of fertility doctors out there who are gods.  And — miracle of miracles — you can actually see them, so they’re automatically better than God.  I’m just sayin’.

(73) “Why are you surprised at the command of God? God’s mercy and blessings be upon you, O members of this household,” they said. “Verily He is worthy of praise and glory.”

Verily my ass.  The past 11 chapters have revealed what a jealous, petty, egotistical, vengeful, insecure, genocidal scumbag God really is.  He’s about as worthy of praise and glory as Hitler.  Wait, do I lose the argument now that I’ve brought a Nazi into it?  The internet has too many rules.  I can’t keep em straight.  Either way, the angels are full of shit.  But in Islam, angels don’t have free will.  They’re literally puppets, so you can see who’s really behind that statement.  Hint: it’s not Hitler.

(74) When Abraham’s fear was dispelled, and the good news had come to him, he pleaded for the people of Lot with Us.
(75) Abraham was kind, compassionate, and penitent.

Remember earlier when I told you about how Abe and Lot had a nasty breakup?  Well, apparently that didn’t happen in the Quran.  It doesn’t actually say anything about them being friends, but Abraham begs for God’s mercy on Lot’s people.  Which is kind of fucked up since, according to the Quran, Lot’s people were total sinners because they were gay.  All of ‘em.  An entire village full of nothing but gay men.  And not just your standard stereotype shopping-for-antiques kind of gay men — we’re talking about the kind of gay men you meet in prison.  Think HBO, not ABC.

I have to pause for a second and mention, by the way, that this is just fucking retarded.  An entire village of violent, rape-crazy gay men?  It sounds like something out of Jerry Falwell’s wet dreams.  The last 2 cities I’ve lived in and the city I live in now have huge, active gay communities.  I know a lot of gay people.  And I’ve honestly never seen a roving gang of gay thugs on the hunt for someone to rape.  Roving gangs of gay thugs looking to get their dance on, yes.  But rape?  Not so much.

Fuckin’ A.  I don’t say this often, but it’s all I can think right now:  I’m offended.

Muslims are constantly crying out, “Why do people think all of us are terrorists?  Blah blah blah!”  Well, what the fuck?  You do the same shit to another group of human beings — and this isn’t even based on some bullshit guidebook to life, but simply who they share their lives (and beds) with.  So fuck you.  You can’t say shit to me anymore about being offended.

And Abraham prays for these so-called sinners?  Hell, maybe the sinners should have been praying for Abraham.  I mean, this is the guy who later puts Ishmael on the butcher’s block — literally — because magic man in the sky tell him to.  He’s ready and willing to murder his own son because some voice in his head says so.  By the way, no, I didn’t mean to say Isaac.  In Islam, it’s Ishmael who’s supposed to get the old chop chop.  Looks like old Mo made a boo boo in the Quran.  Again.  Maybe if he wasn’t so busy hating on groups of people who were different, he’d have some fucking time to fact check a little.

(76) “Desist from pleading, O Abraham,” (they said). “Your Lord’s command has verily been issued, and a punishment that cannot be averted is bound to fall on them.”
(77) So when Our angels came to Lot, he grieved for them, and felt powerless to help them, and said: “This is a day of sorrow.

The angels tell Abraham to shut up and that the punishment can’t be reversed.  Which seems really contradictory to what the Quran always says about the most-merciful God being ready and willing to forgive anyone if only they’d repent and turn to him.  Somehow none of that factored in when God decided to punish Lot’s people.  He was itching to see some blood, so even if they’d embraced God, he would have pelted them with stones just the same.  A guy’s gotta get his shits and giggles somehow, right?  I mean, it’s not like they have cable up in heaven or anything.  Just streams and couches.  And grapes.  Exciting.

This is the part where the story abruptly switches from Abraham to Lot.  And I mean abruptly.  Check it out:

(78) His people came excited to him. They were addicted to sin already.

Awkward switch, right?  I don’t write this shit, I just report it.  Somehow we’re at Lot’s place now and the angels are with him.  And the townspeople are all excited and looking to sin.  But Lot — pious old prophet that he is — tells them they should rape his daughters instead!

Said (Lot): “O my people, these daughters of mine are cleaner (and lawful) for you. Have fear of God, and do not shame me before my guests. Is there no man of discernment among you?”

I like how he says his daughters are cleaner.  Not clean.  Just cleaner.  Either way, they’re nobody’s wife or mother, so they’re totally rapeable.

(79) They said: “You know we have no need for your daughters, and know well what we want.”

Ooooooh!  Rejected!  Poor girls.  They get their sweet revenge later, though, when they get their dad drunk and have sex with him.  Oh wait.  That’s only in the Bible.  It was too XXX for the Quran, so Mo left the incest stuff out of the Quran.  Probably one of his smarter decisions, though he apparently didn’t bat an eyelash at the whole rape-my-daughters thing.  I guess smart is a relative term.

(80) “I wish I had the power to resist you,” said (Lot), “or powerful support.”

And I wish I’d win the lottery so I could quit my job, buy a private island, make it a religion-free zone, and never have to hear about the Quran ever again. Doesn’t do a whole lot of good.  Lot has got to be, by far, the pussiest of all prophets.  I mean, seriously?  Who uses his daughters as human shields against a crowd of rapists?  And then whines about having power and support?

(81) (The angels) said: “O Lot, we have verily been sent by your Lord. They will never be able to harm you. So, leave late at night with your family, and none of you should turn back to look; but your wife will suffer (the fate) they are going to suffer. Their hour of doom is in the morning: Is not the morning nigh?”

The morning is totally nigh.  (Who talks like this?)

Ever wonder why Lot’s wife gets killed?  Yes, she looks back, but why? You’d think Lot would tell her, “Hey, wife, don’t look back or you’ll be turned into a pillar of salt,” whatever a pillar of salt is.  What’s back there for her anyway?

Well, it turns out Lot’s wife cheated on him.  Check it out:

(66:10) God advances the example of Noah’s wife and the wife of Lot for those who do not believe. They were married to Our two pious devotees, but they were unfaithful to them, and even (the apostles) could not avail them in the least against God; and it was said to them: “Enter Hell with those (who are condemned) to enter it.”

Yup!  Noah’s wife cheated on him, too.  (More on that in the next post!)

Lot’s wife found herself a bisexual man in the village full of gay rapists (gaypists?).  And she had sex with him, so she’s in big trouble now.  I like how this insinuates that maybe Lot’s daughters aren’t really his daughters at all.  I mean, Mrs. Lot was running around on him, so who knows?  Maybe the girls who later rape their drunk father in the cave aren’t really his biological daughters at all!  So technically it’s not incest.  Neat!  But still gross, if you ask me.  Biological or not, that’s some fucked up shit.  I’m of the school of thought that you don’t have to give your DNA to someone to love them like they’re a part of you.  But, erm, apparently loving them like they’re a part of you takes on a whole new meaning in the Bible.

(82) So when the decreed moment arrived, We turned the habitations upside down, and rained upon them stones of hardened lava in quick succession,

You knew that was coming. God turns the houses upside down (ha!) and stones everyone to death.  Why?  Why not? See above about no cable TV in heaven.

(83) Impressed with (the signs) of your Lord. And such (punishment) is not far for the (other) transgressers.

OK, there’s another awkward transition.  Who is impressed with (the signs) of your Lord?  The stones of hardened lava?  God himself?  Here’s the full sentence:

We turned the habitations upside down, and rained upon them stones of hardened lava in quick succession, Impressed with (the signs) of your Lord.

Unless God means embossed with the signs of your Lord, in which case — holy shit, God has a logo??  I would fucking love to see that.  Find me a stone that has God’s logo on it.  And then dig deep down to see if we can find us some gay skeletons!  Someone get Harun Yayah on the case!

That’s all I have for the Abraham & Lot saga.  Coming up next:  Noah’s baby mama drama.  After you call Harun Yayah, call up Maury Povich.  It’ll be that kinda post.  Stay tuned!

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Written by kafirgirl

September 25, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Posted in Quran

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41 Responses

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  1. WOW! This story gets better with each reading. I’m like a mosquito in a nudist camp. I don’t know where to begin :). So let me try and grasp it in my pea-brain.

    1. Angels and buddies show up at Abe’s pad.
    2. Angels Says “Yo Abe!’.
    3. Abe says “Yo dudes! How ’bout some veal?”
    4. Angels says “Nah – skip that shit and lets get on with zapping them Homos’.
    5. Abe says “Woow! Dudes… they are’e in Lot’s ‘hood and Lot’s kinda fond of them Homos. Can ya kinda cut ‘em some slack?”.
    6. Angels say “No way dude! Thy Sky-daddy commandeth and we executeth”.
    7. We sent another angel-group to Lot and told him that Sky-daddy want him to skip town.
    8. But them Homos! They showed up and said you got some cute-angel-ass there…. And we want some. Will you un-zip their wings or should we do that ourselves?
    9. Lot says “Hey dudes… don’t bust my rep. Here.. go entertain yourself with some virgin ass of my girls. I’d give you my wifey too… but I’m told you’ve already been introduced.
    10. So the Homos say “What! Are ya kidding me? Angel-ass v/s mere pussy? What kinda schmucks do you think we are?
    11. So Lot’s thinking…”Hmm they’s got a point … How do I up that one?
    12. Angels says “Don’t worry dude… just run away at night. Don’t fight ‘em. God the all-powerful and all-wise has a dentist appointment or he’d totally be with ya. But he’s got an idea for ya. And the idea is….. RUN. Just Run. Scoot, Scat, Shoo off with your hottie girls. And don’t look back. As for your wife…. everyone likes to lick salt. In the meanwhile god will send over some lava and rocks and stones to finish of them Homos. Hey Abe… or it is Lot? Are you listening? Stop stroking my wings… that’s totally GAY!.
    13. And God finished off the Gays…. to only leave incest in place. God – the all-knowing, all-wise and all-incompetent (or am I doing an Ahmed Ali?).

    Now for my question: Do they have this in comic-book format?

    Rahul

    September 25, 2008 at 3:44 pm

  2. KafirGirl… I got it!

    “…and rained upon them stones of hardened lava in quick succession”

    Its lava rock! God created lava rock and did the landscaping for the Gaypists. And he’s asking if the homos are impressed with His work?

    Next time I see lava-rock on someone’s front yard I’ll know….

    Rahul

    September 25, 2008 at 3:55 pm

  3. Do they have this in comic-book format?

    I thought this was the comic-book version! :)

    GAD

    September 25, 2008 at 4:17 pm

  4. Are there no women who would think, [...] “Shit, I’ve never even wanted kids”?

    Of course not! ALL women want babies, after all. At least that’s what most people think. Just start telling people you’re not going to have kids and you’ll see the looks you’ll get (not to mention the verbal abuse).

    Said (Lot): “O my people, these daughters of mine are cleaner (and lawful) for you [...]“

    Wait a minute… is that “lawful” as in “it’s lawful to rape them”? If that still applies, it must be fun being a woman living in a Muslin society. :-\

    Someone more artistically gifted than me should come up with what god’s logo looks like. I’m sure it’s something in the lines of a giant hand flipping the bird at us, with earthquakes and lava rocks showers around it. :-)

    Mauro

    September 25, 2008 at 7:28 pm

  5. “God advances the example of Noah’s wife and the wife of Lot for those who do not believe. They were married to Our two pious devotees, but they were unfaithful to them, and even (the apostles) could not avail them in the least against God; and it was said to them: “Enter Hell with those (who are condemned) to enter it.”

    Does it mean unfaithful as we understand it now? Or could it mean as in not supportive or doubting? So Lot’s wife was unfaithful by looking back i.e. not doing what she was told by VIP spouse.

    Oz

    September 25, 2008 at 7:58 pm

  6. Good call, GAD — this is as close to a comic book Quran as you’re gonna get. At least until I brush up on my drawing skills!

    Mauro, believe me, I know. I’m one of those women who never wants children. When I say that to people I get one of two reactions:
    a) You’ll change your mind, or
    b) WTF is wrong with you?
    It’s like I’ve just told em I like to beat up on paraplegics in my spare time.

    As for the logo, it needs to be printed in invisible ink. Teehee!

    Oz, once you read about Noah’s family in the next post, I don’t think you’ll doubt what faithful means. I suppose you could argue that it means she was unsupportive, but I’d say wait till the next post to make up your mind. Ahmed Ali’s footnote, by the way, says they cheated on the men. Also, in chapter 66 where that verse is from, it goes on to talk about Mary and how she guarded her chastity right after mentioning that Noah & Lot’s wives were unfaithful. Just throwing that out there.

    kafirgirl

    September 25, 2008 at 10:11 pm

  7. It’s the bible story that has Lot’s wife look back and get turned into a pillar of salt. This chapter at least doesn’t say that, and I can’t find it in the koran.

    this chapter leaves it open to interpretation, but my impression is that the angels said right up front they were going to kill her, and Lot was like “oh, ok, but you’re saving my ass, right?

    watercat

    September 25, 2008 at 10:19 pm

  8. I thought I remembered pillar of salt from somewhere in the Quran. I could be wrong. I’ll look it up when I get a moment. I do remember it from Christianity, though. I wonder if she just gets stoned with the gaytheists in Islam instead.

    kafirgirl

    September 25, 2008 at 10:23 pm

  9. To be fair, if I was living in a desert and a traveller came by and didn’t feel like eating I’d be pretty fucking suspicious they weren’t human, it being so far from the nearest poor quality fast food joint and all

    Other Michael

    September 25, 2008 at 10:43 pm

  10. You’re right, Watercat, she does not turn into a pillar of salt. She just doesn’t leave the city, which means she gets pelted with stones and dies. FTW!

    kafirgirl

    September 25, 2008 at 10:45 pm

  11. Other Michael, I think I’d be more like, “WTF? You don’t like veal? Vegetarian? Want something else??” You’re right though — it would be weird. Still, his reaction — fear — seems kind of extreme.

    kafirgirl

    September 25, 2008 at 10:47 pm

  12. Mauro, believe me, I know. I’m one of those women who never wants children. When I say that to people I get one of two reactions:
    a) You’ll change your mind, or
    b) WTF is wrong with you?
    It’s like I’ve just told em I like to beat up on paraplegics in my spare time.

    I hear you… my wife and I used to get that all the time, mostly from family and “friends” until we started being rude and telling people off. Then it stopped. :-)

    Mauro

    September 26, 2008 at 2:49 am

  13. One thing that’s always puzzled me about this story is: how is an entirely homosexual society supposed to survive for any length of time? Where are they getting new people from with no one reproducing? Because it appears that everyone was gay and not even remotely interested in, for example, Lot’s daughters. Normally when someone turns down the opportunity to rape a friend’s daughter it can be put down to their fine moral character, but these guys are apparently fine with rape, so they must just not want women at all. Ever. Otherwise, someone should have been interested.

    Allah didn’t have to stone the place, he could just have waited a few decades with no babies being born and that would have been that.

    Still, I suppose that would have been less entertaining. And we wouldn’t want Allah to be bored now, would we?

    manigen

    September 26, 2008 at 6:22 am

  14. Mauro, you too, huh? I feel your pain. Being rude is definitely the ticket!

    Manigen, yup. It’s the way they turn down Lot’s daughters, too. “You know we have no need for your daughters…” It’s almost like, “Ewwwww!” But then again, if Lot’s wife was able to find someone to have sex with, it’s possible that some people were having sex with women just for the sake of procreating. Not that, um, it mentions any women in that town aside from those in Lot’s family.

    kafirgirl

    September 26, 2008 at 8:02 am

  15. I think it was an evil town not an all gay town, maybe like SF with a big gay community that was tolerated by the bigger community and everyone was doing whatever they wanted wild west style.

    Where it said “lawful” I think that was referring to sex between a man and a woman, not rape. And since women were pretty much a mans property, Lot’s offer of his women/property was not rape but a gift. It is interesting though that sex outside of marriage is a sin and that girls who are not virgins on there wedding night are to be stoned to death, so Lot was really giving up much more then just his daughters virginity. As sick as that is it is even sicker that people think that Lot was great for being willing to sacrifice so much to protect gods messengers.

    GAD

    September 26, 2008 at 11:32 am

  16. 011:001] A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things):

    [011:002] (It teacheth) that ye should worship none but God. (Say): “Verily I am (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    [011:003] “(And to preach thus), ‘Seek ye the forgiveness of your Lord, and turn to Him in repentance; that He may grant you enjoyment, good (and true), for a term appointed, and bestow His abounding grace on all who abound in merit! But if ye turn away, then I fear for you the penalty of a great day:

    [011:004] ‘To God is your return, and He hath power over all things.’”

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search1.cgi?search_text=11%3A1-4&B1=Search

    Notice that in verses 11.2/11.3, the translator helps out Allah with words in brackets. Without those words in brackets, these are clearly the words uttered by a human.

    anand

    September 26, 2008 at 12:15 pm

  17. “Verily I am (sent) unto you from Him to warn and to bring glad tidings:

    The above in verse 11.2 are uttered by Mo. That is why translators put “Say” before these words in bracket.

    anand

    September 26, 2008 at 12:17 pm

  18. Not getting into that till the next post or the one after that, Anand. There’s plenty more to come for chapter 11. You’re jumping waaaaay ahead. This post is about Abraham & Lot.

    kafirgirl

    September 26, 2008 at 12:20 pm

  19. Ok. That is fine.

    anand

    September 26, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  20. Hum. Well worth the read.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot_(Bible)

    GAD

    September 26, 2008 at 12:40 pm

  21. THIS STORY OF LUT IS NARRATED AGAIN IN SURA 15 AS UNDER:
    [015:066] We conveyed to him Our decision that by dawn those people will be completely annihilated.

    [015:067] The people of the town came (to Loot) rejoicing!

    [015:068] He said, “They are my guests. Do not disgrace me!”

    [015:069] “Fear Allah and do not humiliate me!”

    [015:070] They said, “Did we not forbid you to stand up for the whole world?”

    [015:071] He said, “Here are my daughters. If you follow my advice!”

    [015:072] (I swear) upon your life, (oh Mohammed, SAW) they were intoxicated _ rampaging and out of control.

    [015:073] So at the crack of dawn, a blast grabbed them!

    WHY SO MUCH REPETITIONS IN QURAN? WHY NOT ONE SINGLE SOLID NARRATION? ALLAH HAS NO MERCY ON THE READERS OF QURAN.!!!!

    anand

    September 26, 2008 at 12:56 pm

  22. Anand,

    “WHY SO MUCH REPETITIONS IN QURAN? WHY NOT ONE SINGLE SOLID NARRATION? ALLAH HAS NO MERCY ON THE READERS OF QURAN.!!!!”

    “Ramblings” are usually repetitive otherwise somebody might call it literature.

    Rahul

    September 26, 2008 at 1:04 pm

  23. (80) “I wish I had the power to resist you,” said (Lot), “or powerful support.”

    Am I the only one who was immature enough to think of Brokeback Mountain after this? Also, Kafirgirl, when you finish with the Quran, are you going to tackle the Bible next?

    geniusofevil

    September 26, 2008 at 3:42 pm

  24. I feel like I have to say something about the insidious myth of Lot’s daughters raping him This is a very damaging meme that a lot of people are unaware of but to those familiar with the dynamics of incest/ abuse it is the most transparent cover-up imaginable.
    “Denial of the offense and minimization of the offender’s responsibility and the harm he has done is so common…as to be a defining characteristic of this population…” “Investigators … consistently encounter the same standard repertoire of rationalizations and excuses.”
    The excuses are: it was her idea, she forced herself on me, I was drunk, it didn’t hurt anybody, the end result was beneficial; all present and accounted for in Genesis 30-36, as described in this article. It’s a little long and scholarly, but please read

    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/331/7531/1507

    watercat

    September 26, 2008 at 6:32 pm

  25. Googling houris, I keep seeing things like
    ‘The way of the commentators of Ahl al-Sunna as well as Daniel Webster is to understand the “Houris” as the female spouses of the righteous in Paradise.’ and like everybody does, he quotes Bukhari “their wives will be houris” But look at the full quote:
    “They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers. Their wives will be houris.”
    Now doesn’t this say that the female houris will have female spouses, and heaven is full of homosexuals?

    watercat

    September 26, 2008 at 6:57 pm

  26. (80) “I wish I had the power to resist you,” said (Lot), “or powerful support.”

    It’s like he’s saying ‘dude i wish i could quit you…’ The gayness is overwhelming.

    Tove that line about gaypists. Once again women are treated as property. ‘Rape these ones, you freaks! Just stay away from the menfolk!’ Nauseating. i’d never give up my unborn kids for some shit like that.

    Priest

    September 26, 2008 at 11:13 pm

  27. Geniusofevil, I totally didn’t think Brokeback but now I can’t see it any other way.

    Watercat, wow, I’d never thought of it that way. Thanks for that link. As for houris, that’s just another one of those instances where God prefers men over women. Apologists sometimes try to say that houris can also be male and that everyone will have a spouse, but I’m not buying it. And I have no idea what to make of that quote. Uh people in heaven will smell like musk and they’ll have gold combs? And they won’t ever shit again? The fuck?

    kafirgirl

    September 27, 2008 at 1:03 am

  28. Dunno what thread but the other day we were talking about Mo being called a sorcerer, magician, whatever.

    http://pages.citebite.com/r8t4i8t1hodl

    watercat

    September 27, 2008 at 2:24 pm

  29. Abraham and Lot were contemporaries? What the? I had this idea in my head that prophets were like Highlander. There can only be one.

    According to the Bible, Lot was Abraham’s nephew. Does the Quran refer to Lot as a prophet? I’m not sure he ever did anything particularly prophetic, unless talking to angels counts.

    You’d think Lot would tell her, “Hey, wife, don’t look back or you’ll be turned into a pillar of salt,” whatever a pillar of salt is. What’s back there for her anyway?

    Maybe she wanted to go back for her umbrella.

    Oh, by the way, I wouldn’t think that gorging on grapes and honey and then being unable to poop would be especially pleasant.

    Nathan

    September 27, 2008 at 2:57 pm

  30. No salt pillars in the koran; that’s in the bible. I guess it was abrogated.

    The book doesn’t actually say A & L fought: it says their herdsmen couldn’t get along. So I inferred that they were still BFF, but just set up in different places to keep the cowboys from gunning each other down.

    watercat

    September 27, 2008 at 3:55 pm

  31. Watercat, maJewcians? The hell? Must read up some more on this!

    Nathan, the Quran does indeed refer to Lot as a prophet. You do bring up a really interesting question though, and I read up a little bit on it. And by little bit, I really mean very little — I didn’t get much further than Wikipedia. I suck. Cut me some slack — it’s my day off!

    Anyway, according to Wikipedia, there is a difference between prophets and messengers. Some men were both, others were either / or. Hud and Saleh, apparently, were messengers and NOT prophets. Noah and Abraham were both. And angels are actually messengers. Uhhh OK. That’s not confusing at all.

    For my purposes, I call em all prophets. I hope that’s not terribly confusing, but a) this is the first I’ve ever read about difference between messengers and prophets, and b) this thing is a pain in the ass enough without having to decipher who’s a prophet and who’s a messenger…and who’s both. Fuck that noise.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam#Prophets_and_Messengers_in_the_Qur.27an

    kafirgirl

    September 27, 2008 at 4:09 pm

  32. sex outside of marriage is a sin and that girls who are not virgins on there wedding night are to be stoned to death, so Lot was really giving up much more then just his daughters virginity.

    Spot on, dude! That’s kind of a big deal. God’s P.R. Staff is on it though …
    Ali Unal: my daughters…..(to satisfy your desires in wedlock).
    Hilali & Khan : my daughters are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully).

    BTW, can anyone make sense of 11:5, something about covering up when you take a shit? bizarre to the max.

    watercat

    September 27, 2008 at 4:33 pm

  33. There’s more of that PR stuff in the verses on Wikipedia

    ” The Koran does say that the people of Lot insisted on their wickedness of raping men, murder, and robbery while also refusing to stay lawful to their wives. And his people came rushing towards him, and they had been long in the habit of practicing abominations. He said: “O my people! Here are my daughters (my nation’s daughters): they are purer for you (if ye marry)! Now fear God, and cover me not with shame about my guests (for wanting to rape them)! Is there not among you a single right-minded man? (a believer in God)” ”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot_(Bible)

    and

    ” His nation came running towards him; whilst they were doing evil deeds. ‘My nation,’ he said: ‘here are my daughters (take them in marriage), they are cleaner for you. Fear God and do not humiliate me by my guests. Is there not one man amongst you of right mind?’ ”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Lot

    Here it seems that Lot is either telling them to marry “the nation’s daughters” or in the second one that he is offering his own daughters, but only in marriage. How is one supposed to know which translation is the most accurate? Is it just whichever is least offensive to the moral senses?

    The standards for prophet-hood seem to have been lowered somewhere between Judaism and Islam. For one thing, in Judaism, to be a prophet you have to speak directly to God. So Mohammad shouldn’t have been surprised about the Jews rejecting him…seems God got his wires crossed on that one ^.^

    Crystal

    September 27, 2008 at 5:29 pm

  34. Crystal, wow.! I tried reading KG’s link on prophepostlessengers but my brains ran out and clogged up the keyboard.

    I’ve had god appear to me personally; on the scale of prophethood I rate myself at about 400 micrograms–What does that make me?

    watercat

    September 27, 2008 at 6:11 pm

  35. Water, about 11:5, some of the people interpreted God’s omnipotence to mean that he could see their nekkidness while they showered and pooped. So they tried to cover up. They asked Mo about it, and he told them that they’re stupid if they think clothes can hide nekkidness from God (so they should go ahead and not bother bathing with their clothes on and stuff). No joke.

    Crystal, yipes. PR, indeed. Is there no turd an apologist can’t polish?

    kafirgirl

    September 27, 2008 at 8:10 pm

  36. Well, watercat, the first and most important question for determining your prophet-ness is your gender. If you’re a woman, forget about it. Allah must be afraid of cooties because he doesn’t ever speak to girls directly.

    Crystal

    September 27, 2008 at 9:06 pm

  37. LOL! My favorite-ist commentary on the koran =

    Sometimes the textual variants look like deliberate attempts to amend the text (e.g. 24:16- did the pre-Islamic Arabs only worship inathan (females) or authanan (idols)? ).

    It’s obvious to me that humanity didn’t go wrong by adopting monotheism, they went wrong by deciding their one god was a male. Been downhill ever since.

    watercat

    September 27, 2008 at 9:21 pm

  38. I guess PR people hadn’t been invented when the bible was made:

    19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    GAD

    September 27, 2008 at 9:56 pm

  39. [...] a comment » In the last post, we read about Abraham and Lot’s wild adventures with angels and run-ins with lusty [...]

  40. You know, watercat posted about the houris and included text that makes them seem like the first blow-up doll (waiting! for you! in heaven!)

    Compare that to the sections we’ve seen where Job’s family was replaced by similar but better ones, and the few other instances where god’s promised you’ll see people like those you know and love in heaven, but they’ll be new and better!

    This seems to be a consistent theme but I wonder what it was about people that bothered Mo so much that he couldn’t even allow them to be recreated in the afterlife, just hollow manikins.

    geniusofevil

    September 30, 2008 at 1:34 pm

  41. Lack of empathy for others is a standard personality trait for sociopaths.

    http://uzzas.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/

    http://uzzas.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/

    Uzza

    September 30, 2008 at 4:05 pm


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