KafirGirl

We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

10: Jonah (Part II — Who wrote this thing?)

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Know what hell is?  Hell is getting stuck at work for 15 hours.  With high heels on.  While coming down with a cold.  Worst day ever.  I’m taking a sick day and spending it on the couch, chugging chicken soup and blogging the Quran.  I’m a silver lining kinda gal and I’ll be damned if I’ll let a little calf cramping and violent sneezing get me down.

Here’s something that has been getting me down lately:  my posts about the Quran have been a little blah lately.  There have been hints of, as one reader said, weariness in my writing.  My writing has been kinda blah lately because — guess what? — the Quran is fucking blah.  Lawsie mercy.  I’m surprised I made it this far without sounding jaded and burnt out.  Just when you think something new will be introduced(!!!), Mohammed drags out the same old bullshit and says it in the same old bullshit words.  It’s downright exhausting.

Take this chapter for example.  Jonah.  I assumed it would mention Jonah in there a lot.  He was mentioned in passing in chapters 4 and 6:

(4:163) We have sent revelations to you as We sent revelations to Noah and the prophets (who came) after him; and We sent revelations to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob, and their offspring, and to Jesus and Job, and to Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and to David We gave the Book of Psalms

(6:86) We gave guidance to Ishmael, Elisha and Jonah and Lot; And We favoured them over the other people of the world

In short:  Jonah was a prophet.  The end.  That’s all we’ve had on him so far.  I’m sure you guys have picked up on this, but the Quran has mostly just regurgitated the same 5 things over and over again.

  1. God is the best.
  2. Mohammed is the second best.
  3. Heaven is great (streams, fruit, etc).
  4. Hell sucks (fire, pain, etc).
  5. It’s really easy to go to hell and damn near impossible to go to heaven.

Ho hum.  Replace Mohammed with Jesus, and viola!  Christianity in a nutshell.

Anyway, after 9 chapters of that, I was pretty ready to claw my own eyes out.  And then I saw the title of chapter 10 and got all geeked.  It at least sounded interesting.  A whale swallows a guy and then pukes him back up?  Score!  Action and drama in the Quran!  Unfortunately for me, I found neither.  You wanna know what chapter 10 actually says about Jonah?  Here you go:

98. Why has there been no habitation that believed and profited by their faith, except the people of Jonah? When they came to believe, We removed from them the affliction of shame in the world, and made them prosperous for a time.

Yup.  That’s it.  The rest of the chapter?  See above for list of 5 possible discussion topics.  And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I’ve been Debbie Downer lately.  I joked earlier that you could probably take out the repetition and end up with a pamphlet rather than a book.  The more I think about it, the more true that statement is.  Every chapter is basically the previous chapter with a couple of new verses thrown in to shake things up.  Every fucking chapter is the previous chapter in a cheap tuxedo.  The kind that’s coming undone at the seams, and smells like mildew and mothballs from sitting around in grandma’s attic for, erm, 1400 years or so.

The book is a farce and I’ve gone from pity to anger at the people who insist it is the Best Thing Ever™.  The fuck are they thinking?  Or, hell, maybe that’s the problem.  Maybe they’re not thinking.  Or maybe all that intermarrying of first cousins (legal in Islam!) has made some seriously fucking stupid people.  Who knows?  I can’t explain it.

Anyway, that’s my little rant right there.  I’ve skipped ahead to some of the later chapters — the ones that are paragraph length — and they’re actually pretty exciting compared to this shit.  We’ll get there someday, babies.  For now, we’re stuck in Snoresville.  Lets dive in.

(1) ALIF LAM RA. These are the verses of the authoritative Book.

First off, notice that reference to the Quran being a book.  Not oral tradition, not recitations, not even revelations. The word is book. Which makes no goddamned sense because this book didn’t exist until Uthman had it compiled and standardized after Mohammed’s death.  Double you.  Tee.  Eff.  What book is Mo going on about?

I’m going to preempt the standard apologetic before someone brings it up and gets all huffy about it.  Inevitably, someone will say, “It’s talking about the Mother Book, you jerk.”  The Mother Book.  God’s personal Quran written on a tablet, hanging out in heaven with him.  That’s not what this verse is talking about.  If it was talking about the Mother Book, the Arabic would read Umm al-Kithab, like it does in other parts of the Quran.  It doesn’t.  I read the Arabic myself.

Ahmed Ali translated Umm al-Kithab to the Book of Books.  It shows up like this in other parts of the Quran:

(13:39) God abrogates or confirms whatsoever He will, for He has with Him the Book of Books.

(43:4) It is inscribed in the original Book (of Books) with Us, sublime, dispenser of (all) laws.

And if that’s not enough to make you your head explode, check out how other people translated the first verse of chapter 10:

A. J. Arberry:
(1) Alif Lam Ra. Those are the signs of the Wise Book.
Pickthall:
(1) Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verses of the Wise Scripture.
Yusuf Ali:
(1) A.L.R. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom.

Wise book, wise scripture, book of wisdom. No mention of Book of Books, or Mother Book.  Just plain old book.  Why they’d capitalize that shit is beyond me, but there you have it.  My guess is that the whole book business was a later addition to the Quran.  The unalterable Quran.  Snort.  I can’t believe I bought into that shit when I was younger.  I actually felt proud that our book was uncorrupted and unchanged throughout all the years and the Christians and Jews — those poor suckers — had totally fucked up the word of God.  Pot, kettle, black.

Moving along.

Chapter 10 starts out with some mystical Islamic letters.  We already came across ALIF LAM MIM in chapters 2 and 3, and ALIF LAM MIM SAD in chapter 7.  Here’s a quick breakdown of all mystical letters and where they appear:

  • ALIF LAM MIM
    Chapters 2, 3, 29, 30, 31, 32
  • ALIF LAM MIM SAD
    Chapter 7
  • ALIF LAM RA
    Chapters 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
  • KAF HA YA AIN SAD
    Chapter 19
  • TA HA
    Chapter 20
  • TA SIN MIM
    Chapters 26, 28
  • TA SIN
    Chapter 27
  • YA SIN
    Chapter 36
  • SAD
    Chapter 38
  • HA MIM
    Chapters 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46
  • QAF
    Chapter 50
  • NUN
    Chapter 68

Again with the repetition.  Not a single one of those chapters offers any explanation of what those letters are and why they’re there.  It’s like starting out a chapter with random letters of the alphabet.  D U M B — ooooh, mysterious!  People are forever speculating on what those letters mean and how to unlock the code of the Quran.  Can you smell the woo?  Apparently some of Mo’s people could:

(2) Are the people astonished that a man who is one of them was commanded by Us to warn them and to bring glad tidings to those who believe that they have a true precedence with their Lord?

Unfortunately, those people weren’t above the woo themselves.  Check it out:

(Yet) the unbelievers say: “He is a clear sorcerer.”

So people around Mohammed didn’t believe that one among them could be a prophet of God.  Fine.  But they thought he was a sorcerer? That seems a little off to me for one reason:  by his own admission, Mohammed never received a single miracle that was witnessed by anyone else.  He never turned a stick into a snake or water into wine.  There was no walking on water or parting of seas.  There was just his word (and perhaps his epileptic seizures, which must have been scary to see).

Mo did have that magical overnight journey to Jerusalem and that tour of heaven — on a winged horse made of fire, no less!  But surprise, surprise.  There were no witnesses to either of those trips.  And even embarrassed apologists today try to pass those stories off as dreams from God.  A mental trip rather than a physical one.  Either way, I’m not really sure what reason, if any, the people had to believe that Mohammed was a sorcerer.  Batshitasscrazy, yes.  Sorcerer?  Meh, probably not.  But it does sound more badass to say that people think you’re a warlock rather than a fucking nutjob, right?  Right??

(37) This Qur’an is not such (a writ) as could be composed by anyone but God. It confirms what has been revealed before, and is an exposition of (Heaven’s) law. Without any doubt it’s from the Lord of all the worlds.
(38) Do they say (of the Prophet) that: “He has composed it?” Say to them: “Bring a Surah like this, and call anyone apart from God you can (to help you), if what you say is true.”

There is so much that is so dumb about those two verses.  I don’t even know where to begin. …yes I do.  There’s that reference to the Quran being written word.  Again.  Writ means legal document, so now the Quran isn’t just a guidebook for life, but a legal guidebook.  And people wonder how Sharia law could possibly fucking exist.

Then there’s the whole without any doubt it’s from the Lord of all the worlds thing.  I came thisclose to doing a spit-take all over my keyboard.  Off and on, the book has that affect on me.  There was so much coffee and tea gunk lodged between the keys that I had to take Q-Tips and babywipes to ‘em.

That verse just reeks of desperation.  “No, seriously, I swear, this thing is from God!”  Puh-lease. As if anyone would fall for that shit.  …oh wait.

And finally there is the infamous challenge verse.  Say to them: “Bring a Surah like this, and call anyone apart from God you can (to help you), if what you say is true.” Just one surah, huh?  A surah, in case you didn’t know, is a chapter of the Quran.  A chapter.  As in the way books are divided.  Whoo boy, here we go again with the book shit.

Anyway, all you need to do is write one chapter like chapter 10, and you win.  Note that it doesn’t say a chapter better than chapter 10.  Just something like it.

Now you guys might want to brace yourselves for this next bit of news.  Are you sitting down?  Yes I realize you’re on a computer, smartypants, but it’s possible to stand up and use a computer.  Try it sometime.  Ready?  Here it comes:  there’s a contradiction in the Quran.  A contradiction!  Can you believe it??  The infallible, immutable word of the all-knowing, most wise, most everything God has a fucking contradiction in it.  According to chapter 11, you need to create not one, but ten chapters to demonstrate that the Quran is a great big pile of bullshit:

(11:13) Do they say (of the Prophet): “He has forged (the Qur’an)?” Say: “Then bring ten Surahs like it, and call anyone except God to help you, if what you say is true.”

The fuck?  What happened to 1?  It doesn’t really matter anyway, because chapter 2 goes right back to 1 surah:

(2:23) If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our votary, then bring a Surah like this, and call any witness, apart from God, you like, if you are truthful.

Ending it there would be too simple.  No, no.  Mohammed just can’t leave well enough alone.  Chapter 17 goes way the fuck overboard by challenging people to forge the entire Quran if they think they’re so smart.  It even says they can get help from jinns!

(17:88) Say: “Surely if men and jinns get together to produce the like of this (Qur’an), they will not be able to produce the like of it, however they might assist one another.

So, for the record, the Quran challenge is to mimic 1, 10 or all 114 chapters of the Quran.  No word on what happens if someone succeeds, but my guess is that they’d win an all-expenses paid trip to hell courtesy of the Behead Those Who Insult Islam people.  AKA Muslims.

By the way, if you believe in the Quranic miracle of the number 19, then you unknowingly support an idea that proves heresy.  The guy who invented the 19 miracle used it to prove that there were two fake verses inserted into the Quran.  This really doesn’t jibe well with verses like this one from chapter 10:

(64) For them is good news in the life of the world and in the life to come.
There is no changing the words of God.

See, Rashad Khalifa, the guy who invented the miracle, changed part of the Quran to make them fit his number 19.  He actually removed verses 9:128 and 9:129 and claimed they were fake since they threw off the number 19 miracle.  Khalifa, by the way, also added his own name in parentheses to 8 verses.  The guy actually thought he was a prophet, next in line after Mohammed himself.  Yeah.  The guy was a nut.  And yet the 19 miracle gets tossed around by ig’nant ass Muslims who would do anything — anything — to justify their belief that the Quran is the unalterable word of God.

God himself says it:  There is no changing the words of God. But if you believe in the miracle of the number 19, either the Quran is not the unalterable word of God like it claims to be, or the number 19 miracle — a sign that the book is sent by God himself — is a fat load of shit.  Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.  Take your pick, babies.  Me?  I think they’re both bunk.  But you knew that already, didn’t you?

(61) There is no state you are in, whether reading from the Qur’an, or doing something else, but We are watching you as you are engaged in it. There is not the weight of an atom on the earth and in the heavens that is hidden from your Lord, nor is there anything smaller or greater than this but is recorded in the perspicuous Book.

Oh would you look at that?  Another reference to the book that didn’t exist until after Mohammed died.  And a reference to an atom.  Clearly this is the word of God because how else could some desert-dwelling illiterate* guy know about atoms in 600 CE?  Not so much.  As Watercat pointed out in the comment section of another post, that verse is actually referring to “mustard seed” in some older translations or “fleck of dust” in others.  But atom sounds so much more impressive, doesn’t it?

Here is yet another reference to the book that didn’t exist:

(94) If you are in doubt of what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been reading the Book (for a long time) before you. The truth has indeed come to you from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt,

I’ve had a few Muslim commenters suggest that same thing to me:  if you have doubts about this book, you should go to your local Islamic center and talk to an expert.  They’ll learn ya!  Incidentally, my answer is and always will be thanks, but no thanks.  I can read and think for myself.  I don’t need a fucking mullah to do it for me.

But you know what?  That’s not even the meat and potatoes of the issue.  The verse says if you are in doubt about the Quran, you should talk to someone.  How the fuck can someone doubt the Quran if it is what it says it is?  Lets hop in the time machine and travel way back to chapter 2:

(2:2) This is The Book free of doubt and involution

Right.  Of course it is.  Snort.


* It’s just a myth, remember?  Mo managed his first wife’s merchant business.  Even Ahmed Ali, king of the apologists, agrees in his footnote on page 153, which, by the way is a run-on sentence of epic proportions:

The Quran is clearly dealing here with the conferment of the Scripture on the Prophet, thus making him and his followers a people of the Book, as until the revelation of the Quran the Prophet was a non-ahl-e-kitab, an ummi, and therefore neither read a Scripture nor wrote, that is, copy it with his right hand, the pen in those days being the sole means of making a copy of a book or Scripture.  This, it seems, was misinterpreted to mean that he was illiterate.

Ahmed Ali was either unaware or chose to ignore the hadith that discuss how Khadija, wife number 1, dragged him to hear a Christian convert preach the Bible.  Or how there were plenty of other Jews and Christians around who he could have picked up myths and monotheistic ideas from.

Hell, I’ve never read any Buddhist scriptures and I sure as hell have never copied them down, but I can string together a bunch of things I’ve heard from my Buddhist friends.  The Quran tries to pass it off like Mohammed lived in a polytheistic bubble and never came across any Christian or Jewish scripture or ideas.  That’s just fucking stupid.

Besides, the Quran itself says Mohammed can read.  Check it out:

(96:1) Read in the name of your Lord who created

And one more just for good measure:

(96:3) Read, for your Lord is the most beneficient,

Booya.  Longest footnote ever.

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Written by kafirgirl

September 16, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Posted in Quran

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38 Responses

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  1. Well, you may feel weary but I found this very interesting and one of best posts.

    GAD

    September 16, 2008 at 3:57 pm

  2. Hey, do you think those mystical letters combined predict the hell awaiting us atheists? :-)

    Muhamad

    September 16, 2008 at 4:41 pm

  3. Just finished reading the 19 thingy on wikipedia’s islam page.

    WHAT THE FUCK

    its a pile of confusing shite! i have never whole-heartedly accepted Islam or the Qur’an, denial knows i tried! but the weak ass crap they use to justify patriarchy, polygamy, paedophilia and stupid backwards mysogyny… you’d think they would have tried harder eh? but alas, if it means tying ur bitches up then the simplest and stupidest crap works. cue: the quran!

    PS have been reading this for ages! i think you provided the catalyst for me to open my fucking eyes!
    its a bit unsettling but so much better than lying and feeling bad. xx

    Closet Athiest

    September 16, 2008 at 4:43 pm

  4. God abrogates or confirms whatsoever He will, for He has with Him the Book of Books.

    God abrogates? Doesn’t that imply he makes mistakes, or at least doesn’t get it quite right the first time? Doesn’t that contradict his infallibility?

    I understand that because the Koran’s verses are listed in order of length rather than chronologically there are verses you read that are abrogations of verses that follow, which is backward to what one might normally expect. Oh well.

    Is there a list of the passages that are abrogated by others, showing the ‘abrogaters’ and ‘abrogatees’?

    And…
    Re: the switching between First and Third person (discussed in an early post of yours)
    In a discussion on the BBC Muslim topic an Islamic proponent offered the wise words from this web site as to Allah’s grammatical inconsistencies:

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/iltifaat.html

    Apparently it’s just a reflection of how clever he is and…er…his thinking of the reader:
    “the change of speech from one mode to another, For the sake of freshness and variety for the listener, to renew his interest, and to keep his mind from boredom and frustration, through having the one mode continuously at his ear.”

    Amazing that he would cite that website in defense! of the Koran. Anyway, I then asked what bits of the Koran were likely to be found boring or frustrating. Disappointingly I never got a reply.

    kics

    September 16, 2008 at 4:51 pm

  5. Dang.. !! now i get it. to say this kinda BS u need to write it down to repeat it right? I mean who in his / her right mind say things like

    Then pointing at a rock, they demanded: “Ask your Lord to make a she camel, which must be 10 months pregnant, tall and attractive, issue from the rock for us.”

    and repeat it over and over again? you definitely need a book to refer back to the BS.. and so God has a book where s/he has written these down. you know.. just in case.. after reading all this s/he runs out of the house screaaaaaming.. noooooooo..

    Shashi

    September 16, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  6. Re: Mo being a Hairy Potter:
    Abu Jahl and other leaders in the persecution of the Holy Prophet assembled together to ponder what name to give to the Prophet. Somebody suggested that he was a poet, but Walid said that his word was not like that of a poet. Another suggested that he was a soothsayer, but Walid rejected this, too, on the ground that Muhammad never spoke a lie, whereas the soothsayers often proved liars. A third suggestion was that he was a madman, but this too was found inconsistent with the circumstances of the Holy Prophet’s life. Then Walid left the company, his comrades thinking that he was going over to Islam. Abu Jahl followed him to question him about the matter, and was told that, after pondering deeply on the question, he had come to the conclusion that the Prophet was a sahir, i.e., an enchanter, because, he said, “It is the enchanter who separates the father from the son, the brother from the brother, and the husband from the wife”. Thereupon a proclamation was made in the streets of Makkah that the Prophet was a sahir.

    watercat

    September 16, 2008 at 9:04 pm

  7. GAD, glad you liked this one.

    Muhamed, I dunno man. Maybe it’s a key to the mysteries of heaven. OoooooOOOOOooooh!

    Closet Atheist, I’m guessing by your email address that you’re an ex-Muslim, too. I know it can be unsettling — it certainly has been for me — but in the end, I do believe it’s worth it. I’m glad you’re getting something out of this whole experiment. I agree with you. I’d rather face facts than live a lie. High five!

    Kics, I covered the a abrogation vs infallibility thing in an older post. I can’t, for the life of me, remember which one though. You’re absolutely right — it makes no fucking sense. Especially when you consider there is a verse in the Quran (listed in that same post) that says if you believe only a part of the book, but not ALL of the book, you’re going to hell. The fuck??

    As far as I know, there isn’t a list of abrogated verses and the ones that supposedly replaced them. It would be handy though. Or perhaps just confusing. I dunno.

    Um, so switching from I to We to He is supposed to prevent confusion?? Newsflash for God: it’s not working.

    Shashi, I guess if you just keep saying something over and over again, you’ll start to believe it. I don’t know how else people could continue believe in this crap.

    Watercat, that doesn’t sound fishy at all, huh? Bahaha! Yeah fucking right, he wasn’t considered a madman because it was inconsistent with the circumstances of his life. He says in the Quran all the time that people thought he was a madman. And liar? Don’t even get me started!

    kafirgirl

    September 16, 2008 at 9:24 pm

  8. Abrogation discussion is on Chapter 2 the Cow Part II, Anand’s comments are FTW.

    I’m frustrated looking for details on the word qura’a Apparently it means both “recite” and “read”, which is relevant to the Book Envy problem. Anyone?

    watercat

    September 16, 2008 at 9:49 pm

  9. Unsolicited suggestion — if you’re burnt out on the Koran maybe spend a bit more time dissecting and mocking batshit crazy Hadith? I’ve always found them 100 times funnier and more entertaining — and your posts about Hadith have been great.

    Other Michael

    September 16, 2008 at 10:11 pm

  10. Here’s something funny. There’s a mistake in Wikipedia entry for the magic letters: It says none of them form a meaningful word, but actually NUN, that starts Surah 68 the Pen, is a word meaning either ‘fish’ or ‘pen’. So you’ll find people non-involution-ally explaining the first line:
    (1) NUN. By the pen and what the (angels) write.
    (a) NuN is meaningless ,
    (b) Nun, meaning ‘pen’ gives the chapter its name
    (c) Nun, meaning ‘fish’ refers to verse 48 which mentions Jonah,
    (d) and since it also can mean ‘inkstand’, we get
    1 By the inkstand and the pen and that which they write! Involution much?

    watercat

    September 16, 2008 at 10:28 pm

  11. Thanks Watercat! i wonder where old Anand’s been hiding anyway. I dunno anything about the Qura’a, but I’ll see if I can dig something up later today. That NUN stuff, by the way — wtf? I guess people can’t take it for the nonsense it is. Surely it must mean SOMETHING! Involution ^ 10.

    Michael, I might veer off into that direction now and again. The problem with hadith is that while the batshitasscrazy ones are really entertaining, the others are super boring. Who cares what hands Mohammed used to eat his dates with?! Apparently someone, because crap like that makes up a lot of hadith. Between that and the x told y told z who saw a’s cousin once chain, it can be pretty boring too. But I still think you’re right — way more fun than the Quran.

    kafirgirl

    September 17, 2008 at 7:39 am

  12. Those mystical (haha!!) letters used to drive me nuts as a kid learning to recite. The teacher at the madrasah I went to used to hit our palms if we persisted in wanting to know what those words meant. I mean, we were actually punished for seeking clarification! Islam’s awesome like that.

    Sarah

    September 17, 2008 at 8:29 am

  13. I’ve had a few Muslim commenters suggest that same thing to me: if you have doubts about this book, you should go to your local Islamic center and talk to an expert. They’ll learn ya! Incidentally, my answer is and always will be thanks, but no thanks.

    Why not? Maybe you could make them weep? :-)

    And hey, I just noticed another Michael. Hi guy!

    Michael

    September 17, 2008 at 9:22 am

  14. NUN, that starts Surah 68 the Pen, is a word meaning either ‘fish’ or ‘pen’.

    Surah 68 starts with N, not with NUN. The word NUN=fish is in 21:87.
    Khalifa needed one more N for his 19-miracle, so he counted N two times in the first letter of Surah 68 !

    Ibn Warraq reported from a conference, where Luxenberg presented his thoughts on the mysterious letters:

    Luxenberg suggested that they all had something to do with Syriac liturgical traditions. For instance, the letter Sad at the beginning of Surah 38 indicates the number 90, referring to Psalm 90, while the letters A L R to be found at the beginning of Surahs 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 are a Syriac abbreviation meaning “The Lord said to me.”

    http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/19589/sec_id/19589

    I recommend most of Luxenberg’s work but I am not convinced in this case.

    kereng

    September 17, 2008 at 11:29 am

  15. The bible code for those interested.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

    GAD

    September 17, 2008 at 11:40 am

  16. ” but the Quran has mostly just regurgitated the same 5 things over and over again.

    God is the best.
    Mohammed is the second best.”

    In verse 33:56, Muhammad becomes the best and Allah becomes the second best.

    anand

    September 17, 2008 at 1:31 pm

  17. kquote>Surah 68 starts with N, not with NUN. The word NUN=fish is in 21:87.
    Khalifa needed one more N for his 19-miracle,

    Khalifa’s work is from 1974, and these translations date from as far back as the 19th century, so this hardly seems plausible.
    The Online Quran Project gives me 25 translations: 18 of these show NuN for Surah 68. The word ‘fish’ occurs 8 times in Ahmed Ali’s koran, but that has nothing to do with the Muqatta’at, which is what we are talking about. Surah 21 doesn’t have one.

    Of the versions without NuN, Three have nothing, three have just N, and one has NNuoN.
    Muslims need to understand the true meaning of these letters. It is actually:
    “write big fat checks and send them to me.” (Paypal is halal.)

    lolkoran

    September 17, 2008 at 1:55 pm

  18. Regarding the Bible Code: Dmitry Brant has a little program on his site http://dmitrybrant.com/fun-with-the-bible-code , so you can try to find any code you like in the bible, or whatever text file you have available, even a webpage like this.

    As I was reading this post, I was listening to PF’s The Wall. Its movie version has the following appropriate quote somewhere for Mo:

    “What have we here, laddie? Mysterious scribblings? A secret code? No! Poems, no less! Poems, everybody! The laddie reckons himself a poet!”

    So, maybe a Quran challenge? :)

    DutchA

    September 17, 2008 at 4:00 pm

  19. Michael number 2, I changed your name to Other Michael to avoid confusion with Michael who comment on here regularly. Hope you don’t mind!

    Sarah, yikes! My parents actually pulled us out of a Sunday school like that. If you asked a question, you were going to hell. Luckily, my parents didn’t buy into that.

    Michael, I think I would shit kittens the moment I stepped into an Islamic Center. Not that I haven’t thought about it. The thing that’s kept me away so far has been the covering-your-hair-in-the-building rule. I refuse.

    Kereng, Khalifa was full of shit. The idea that anyone could buy into it (and people do) is just beyond me.

    Anand, welcome back =)

    DutchA, thanks for that link. Fantastic!

    kafirgirl

    September 17, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  20. Sure, I’ll be Other Michael!

    Good point — a lot would be quite dreary — still some are interesting. I’ll send you any crazy ones if I find them.

    This is inspiring me — I’m considering doing some similar highlight of hilarious things from the Talmud — but a lot of it is a bit technical and hard to explain to those with no background knowledge.

    Other Michael

    September 17, 2008 at 8:07 pm

  21. “If you are in doubt of what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been reading the Book (for a long time) before you”.
    Amazing how this book free of doubt and involution would suggest within its own pages that you need expert help to actually understand the thing. And of course having a secret code which no-one understands is a well-trusted way of avoiding involution. How on earth do people who buy into this shit actually get to sleep at night with all the dissonance going on?
    Maybe I need to ask an Imam.

    Lance

    September 18, 2008 at 2:51 am

  22. Your updates continue to interest and delight me, KafirGirl.

    It’s heartening to read the thoughts of someone else who rejected the religion they grew up in and were indoctrinated with.

    Will

    September 18, 2008 at 3:03 am

  23. Other Michael, go for it! Although I hear ya on the technical stuff. The Quran has its moments where I’m not sure how to explain something to people who didn’t grow up with it. People ask lots of questions and generate good discussion — we get by =)

    Lance, it’s even more confusing when these people say that Islam is an egalitarian religion. At least that was the mantra when i was growing up — everyone is equal. Erm, except women, of course. And some men are more equal than others, because Imams hold special authority and are closer to the book (and God!). So, of course, they have more power than the average joe. And they’re treated differently. If that ain’t an egalitarian society, I dunno what is!

    Thanks Will! Glad you’re enjoying it so far.

    kafirgirl

    September 18, 2008 at 7:50 am

  24. It’s totally like that, as Sarah is telling, at Islamic studies school (aka the madrasa), like me, i couldn’t stay awake and used to rock up and down to concetrate, just to get through it, and one time she hit me with a ruler across me right eye and it cut me so bad blood was pouring all over, this is how we was treated. And the only thing the teacher was worried about is if the blood was on the Holy Qu’ran, meanwhile i was just sitting there in shock, i couldn’t even see nothing it was so bad.

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 18, 2008 at 8:15 am

  25. This stuff about bible codes etc, get this, there’s a woman, she found out that stonehenge predicts Jesus and she used mathematics, cos its a system (like N19), called Gammatriyyah, which means the radius of stonehenge is 3192 meters, and the world is 3192 also, and if u use this system on letters in the bible it tells like this, “Lord Jesus Christ.”
    So stonehenge predicts Jesus. I don’t believe it, its same, now they are doing the same with the Holy Qu’ran also, that’s not Islam of course, it’s bida’.
    Bida also is the most terrible thing actually, so to make the Holy Qu’ran the source of bida’- u can say it’s no good. So N19 is bida’, it’s not Islam.

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 18, 2008 at 8:21 am

  26. in fact personages doing this, they are like takfiris u can say, it’s bida’

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 18, 2008 at 8:22 am

  27. hi everyone, it’s Ramazan and i really really really want to get high

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 18, 2008 at 3:40 pm

  28. Well, I’m convinced now that the Quran is the word of god. I found this undeniable proof.

    No one has ever been heard to be bored with the recitation of the Quran

    Just thought I’d let you know.

    watercat

    September 18, 2008 at 8:26 pm

  29. Yeah, what the fuck @ that, Watercat. I’ve heard the Quran recited more times than I can even begin to imagine, and not only do I get bored and start daydreaming, but eventually it gets so bad that I lose my will to live. No one has ever been bored with Quran recitation? Whatever you say, dudes. Whatevvvvver you say.

    kafirgirl

    September 18, 2008 at 9:37 pm

  30. i’ll have to second the notion of diving into the hadith every now and again. Maybe it’s worthwhile to hear what hand Mo used to wipe his ass, or how many stones used, and which one he used to beat off while watching rocks turn into camels. Here’s hoping you get better [healthwise]./

    Priest

    September 18, 2008 at 10:02 pm

  31. FYI – Links to the kafigirl.wordpress site within messages on the BBC Muslim message board have been deemed by the moderators as inappropriate – and the moderators (whose religious affiliations I’m not aware) have edited the messages and removed the link! It now seems al-BBC is doing its best to fight apostasy!

    I complained needless to say. They have allowed messages removing the ‘http://’ and leaving the rest, which allows readers to simply copy and paste into their Browser address field.

    kics

    September 19, 2008 at 8:30 am

  32. @kics: The BBC are renowned dhimmis. They quite clearly are more Chamberlain-like than Churchill-like.

    Michael

    September 19, 2008 at 9:23 am

  33. Er, sorry BBC, cos I am a Pakistani female and while everyone else gets their rights to speak out- including Islamic terrorists and neo Nazis (two extremes of the same problem), personages such as meself- yes, as a Kufr girl, i can’t speak up?
    Why not BBC?
    There’s NOTHING against our community, we LOVE Pakistanis, we LOVE our people, and we offend to no one- cos we are part of that community (even if we’re afraid of it), u can’t deny the rights of apostates, how come, cos u think we are going to offend our own people? No, that’s not the reason, like u know.
    The reason is YOU- the British establishment are trying to buy off Islamists by silencing Muslim and ex Muslim women who want to speak out.
    You think u can buy off the Islamists letting them run our communities like little Bantustan’s, cos we’re all just Pakis anyhow.
    Stupid, naieve british government, still not learned it’s lesson, only people who can stop more terror in UK is Muslim women (some of whom want to SPEAK UP very loudly- something ure against, and yes, some are also kufr girls), not ure police or spies and definetly not ure policy of appeasement.
    UK is now introducing Sharia’ courts (go to apostate’s blog- she is shouting out about it right now- cos YOU didn’t believe me when i told- see, it’s TRUE).
    In UK, u can not offend to the terrorists, they are killing pluralism, ennabling Jihadis, undermining muslim and ex muslim women especially and increasing white resentment.
    BBC- Fuck the Qu’ran and FUCK U also.
    kutta bbc.
    This is the battle we are fighting against. Inappropriate?
    What’s INAPPROPRIATE is 40,000 UK Pakistani girls who just vanished and BBC refuses to acknowledge.
    What’s inappropriate is the terror regime in our community cos UK Police is using hardline Jihadis to ‘police us’.
    What’s inappropriate is the BBC aping Islamic values (when they are actually despised in the middle east and pakistan and considered Zionist), and deciding that the two Arabi girls who was murdered in Birmigham (one was called Jasmine also sadly), was prostitutes when they was students of biochemistry and languages- see YOU, downclass BBC take the side of the Islamists everytime, as if trying to justify all their bad stuff against us- or, just ignore it.
    I HATE BBC- Voice of Londonistan- nothing more.

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 19, 2008 at 12:42 pm

  34. There’s no racism on this site, Kafir Girl is ANTI RACIST, i even admit Dutch A and all other personages who poist is not racist, see how wise i am to ‘guard the gate’ of this site, see, now u get it or no? This is what we are dealing with in UK, if i speak up, they are telling like this, “Jaz, ure just a little fool and ure getting used by the right.”
    Huh, well maybe me and Kafir Girl are smart enough to deal with Neo Nazis and the right ourselves, like we been doing, so how come BBC won’t link to KG’s site?
    Simple…. appeasemement.
    Here’s the problem, appeasement just loses ure friends and emboldens ure enemies, it never works, never.
    It’s shameful they done like that BBC, really it is, i am just furious.

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 19, 2008 at 12:46 pm

  35. I am not returning to UK, really, it’s not safe, it’s not safe for me, and i am coming to america to live normally

    jasminefrompakistan

    September 19, 2008 at 12:46 pm

  36. I think this is perhaps part of the reason why many Muslim families don’t have their children read the Quran in their own language but rather in Arabic (a language they usually don’t understand). It effectively stops any of these criticisms…

    Good stuff though…

    moizkhan

    September 19, 2008 at 6:17 pm

  37. Quickie update — I’ve been swamped at work and haven’t had much time for anything. But that’s all over and done with. I’ll be back tomorrow after I have a good night’s rest.

    Hope you’re all doing well!

    -KG

    kafirgirl

    September 19, 2008 at 11:12 pm

  38. [(11:13) Do they say (of the Prophet): “He has forged (the Qur’an)?” Say: “Then bring ten Surahs like it, and call anyone except God to help you, if what you say is true.”]

    Abū Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakariyā Rāzī, “probably the greatest and most original of all the Muslim physicians” had this to say about the challenge:

    You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: “Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one.” Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. … By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: “Produce something like it”?!

    iskimo

    April 3, 2009 at 8:03 am


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