KafirGirl

We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

6: The Cattle (Part II — Abe & Co.)

with 70 comments

Oh mah gah, you guys; the Quran is the most boring book I have ever voluntarily read.  I was expecting it to be a fairy tale storybook, but it’s more like a fairy tale legal document.  For every verse I write about here, there are another 20 that are totally useless.  Most are just God greasing up his own dick, talking about how amazing he is.  And how he could totally prove it if he really wanted to, but he doesn’t feel like it.  The rest are about how we’ll all be tortured in hell.

If he wanted to really torture people, he’d make hell a book club where you read and discuss nothing but the Quran.  All day, everyday, for eternity.  The mere thought of it makes me want to gouge my eyes out.  No fucking wonder so many people are content with simply believing whatever their parents or imams tell them.  It’s the easy way out.

Anyway, after reading 6 chapters of blahblahblah, I was absolutely giddy when I stumbled across an actual story(!!!).  It’s the story of Abraham’s conversion to monotheism, so it’s nothing really exciting.  It’s only a few short verses, but they’re worth discussing.  Lets jump right in:

74. Remember when Abraham said to Azar, his father: “Why do you take idols for God? I certainly find you and your people in error.”

No, actually, I don’t remember, but I’ll take his word for it.  He is God and all.  He must know what he’s doing.  Right?  Right??

75. Thus We showed to Abraham the visible and invisible world of the heavens and the earth, that he could be among those who believe.
76. When the night came with her covering of darkness he saw a star, and (Azar, his father) said: “This is my Lord.” But when the star set, (Abraham) said: “I love not those that wane.”

77. When (Azar) saw the moon rise all aglow, he said: “This is my Lord.” But even as the moon set, (Abraham) said: “If my Lord had not shown me the way I would surely have gone astray.”

78. When (Azar) saw the sun rise all resplendent, he said: “My Lord is surely this, and the greatest of them all.” But the sun also set, and (Abraham) said: “O my people, I am through with those you associate (with God).

Woah woah woah woah woah.  Woooooooah.  I’m not sure I’m following this.  I can understand saying that the sun sets, because that’s just an expression.  But the stars and the moon?  They “set”?  As in they move around the earth?  The fuck?  That can’t be right.  I’m a total troublemaker, so I had to look it up.

36:38. While the sun keeps revolving in its orbit. This is the dispensation of the mighty, all-knowing (God).
36:39. We have determined the stations of the moon, so that (after its wanderings) it returns as a dried up inflorescent spike of dates.
36:40. Neither can the sun overtake the moon, nor the night outpace the day: Each of them keeps coursing in its orbit.

God is saying that the sun revolves around an orbit.  And the moon revolves around a different orbit, which is why the sun and the moon don’t bump into each other.  Holy fixed earth, Batman.  Verse after verse after fucking verse confirmed it:  according to God, the earth does not move.  The sun, moon and stars move around it. Check it out:

13:2. It is God who raised the skies without support, as you can see, then assumed His throne, and enthralled the sun and the moon (so that) each runs to a predetermined course.

21:33. It is He who created night and day, the sun and the moon, revolving on its orbit.

35:13. He makes night run into day, the day run into night, and has harnessed the sun and the moon so that each runs to its determined course.

The moral of the story:  the guy who created the universe doesn’t even know how our fucking solar system works.  God is dumber than a first grader.  Fuckin’ A.  Anyway, let’s get back to the verse from chapter 6.

Abraham’s father is a fixed earth loving, moon gazing hippie.  And you know, what?  I can at least sort of understand that.  These are the days before science and reason, after all.  People didn’t know any better.  It was the jahiliyah, as the Muslims called it:  the age of ignorance and barbarism.  The irony.  The fucking irony.  It’s making my sides hurt.

79. I have truly turned my face towards Him who created the heavens and the earth: I have chosen one way and am not an idolater.”

It makes more sense to Abraham that God would be an invisible man who watches him from the sky.  Yes, Abe, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than thinking the burning ball in the fucking sky is in charge.

80. His people argued, and he said: “Do you argue with me about God? He has guided me already, and I fear not what you associate with Him, unless my Lord wills, for held within the knowledge of my Lord is everything. Will you not reflect?

Abraham just doesn’t get it, does he?  He talks shit about his dad’s religion, but then brings no evidence to back up his claims.  Why should they believe him?  And God’s no help either.  Instead of sending down some proof to help his boy out, God does what he’s best at:  doing nothing.

81. And why should I fear those you associate with Him when you fear not associating others with God for which He has sent down no sanction? Tell me, whose way is the way of peace, if you have the knowledge?
82. They alone have peace who believe and do not intermix belief with denial, and are guided on the right path.”

In order to have peace, you have to get rid of the denial and just embrace belief.  Riiiight. Well that explains it.  No wonder there’s never any turmoil in the Middle East!

83. This is the argument We gave to Abraham against his people. We exalt whosoever We please in rank by degrees. Your Lord is wise and all-knowing.

The fuck?  This is the argument God sends down for Abraham:  “You must believe in my invisible sky God because these other sky gods that you can actually see have to work in shifts.  My invisible God doesn’t need naps.  He’s always working.  He’s always around.  But you can’t see him, because he’s invisible! You guys are so fucking ig’nant.”  The saddest part is that even 1400 years later this kind of argument is still considered valid in Islam.  And if you question it, you might find yourself missing a hand or a foot.  Or a head.  Just sayin’.

84. And We gave him Isaac and Jacob and guided them, as We had guided Noah before them, and of his descendants, David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus We reward those who are upright and do good.
85. Zachariah and John We guided, and guided Jesus and Elias who were all among the upright.
86. We gave guidance to Ishmael, Elisha and Jonah and Lot; And We favoured them over the other people of the world,

87. As We did some of their fathers and progeny and brethren, and chose them, and showed them the right path.

Little name dropping going on there. Why it’s almost as if God wants to stress that Mohammed comes from a line of prophets descending down from Abraham himself.  Pretty sure you guys can connect the dots on this one, but I’ll just throw it out there:  cui bono?  Who benefits from this?  Obviously not God.  And not Abraham or any of the other so-called prophets since they’re long dead.  So, cui bono?  The same fucking guy who bono’s from every other verse in the Quran, that’s who.

Mohammed wants to convert Jews and Christians to Islam, so what does he do?  He tells them that the Muslim God is clearly the same as the Jewish God and the Christian God, and he wants all of them to upgrade.  And while he’s at it, he takes some jabs at those pesky polytheists in his area.  God’s been trying to enlighten those silly idol-worshipers since old Abe was around.  They just don’t get it, do they?  And apparently neither do the Muslims.  The ones who do understand keep their traps shut, because seriously, living quietly is easier than dying for speaking up.  Right?

For those who are curious about all those prophets Mohammed mentions in the Quran,  here’s a little break down.

  • Isaac is Abraham’s son.  God tells Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to prove that he’s loyal, and Abraham is totally going to do it.  Suspenseful!  God changes his mind at the very last minute and nobody dies (37:100).  For serious, if that shit happened today, Abraham would find himself in prison, and Isaac would live in a series of foster homes and be a cutter.
  • Jacob is Abraham’s other son grandson but he’s not really mentioned at all.  God plays favorites.  (Thanks for the correction, Jon!)
  • Noah. Who doesn’t know Noah?

    27. So We asked him to build the ark under Our eyes and guidance, (and said): “When Our command is issued and the source of water boils over, put a pair of every species in it, and your family except those for whom Our sentence has been passed already; and do not speak to Me for those who are wicked: They will be drowned.

    Yes, Muslims do believe this literally happened.  I’m kind of surprised they’re not competing with the Christians, trying to see who can dig up the ark first.

  • Then there’s David, of Goliath fame.  The Quran leaves out that whole foreskin mountain thing.  Probably a wise decision.
  • And there’s Solomon who, I shit you not, could control the wind, and had  jinns and devils who worked for him:

    34. We surely tried Solomon, and placed another body on his throne. So he turned to God
    35. Saying: “O Lord, forgive me, and give me such a dominion as none will merit after me. You are the great bestower.”
    36. So we subjugated the wind to his service which carried his merchandise wheresoever he wished;
    37. And the devils — the builders and divers of all kinds,
    38. And many others bound in bond.

    39. “This is Our gift,” (We said to him), “so bestow freely or withhold without reckoning.”

    Solomon got jinn slaves, Jesus got to make birds out of clay, and Mohammed got nothing.  See above about God playing favorites.

  • There’s Job, who has a story that sounds really similar to the Bible version.  In the Quran, Satan (Iblis) wants to test Job’s loyalty to God.  So he tortures and tormets Job, while God sits back and watches.  Job starts crying super bad, and then God finally gives him some homeopathic remedies to ease the pain:

    41. Remember Our votary Job because he called to his Lord: “Satan has afflicted me with disease and distress.”
    42. “Go swiftly to the spring,” (We said). “This cold water is for bathing and for drinking.”
    43. We restored his family to him with others similar to them, as a blessing from Us and a reminder for men of wisdom. —

    44. “Take a handful of herbs,” (We said to him), and apply and rub them, and do not make a mistake.” We found him patient in adversity, an excellent devotee, always turning in repentance.


  • There’s an entire chapter on Joseph (aptly titled Joseph), that’s chock full of stories, so for now I’ll just give you this little teaser:

    4. When Joseph told his father: “O my father, I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon bowing before me in homage,”
    5. He said: “O son, do not narrate your dream to your brothers, or they will plot against you. Surely Satan is man’s acknowledged foe.

    The fuck?  Eleven planets?   And how exactly do the sun, moon and 11 planets bow down to a person?  I’ll save that rant for chapter 12.

  • You guys have already met whiney Moses and his whiney Jew crew, so we can skip over him.
  • Aaron is Moses’ best bud, and he’s mentioned only in passing, so we can skip over him, too.  If God gets to play favorites, so do I.
  • Zachariah was Mary’s foster father (3:35), and we’ll run into him again a few times.  Most likely in chapter 19, which is all about Mary.  Zachariah has a barren wife, but God “fixes” her.
  • John also has a barren wife.  And guess what?  God fixes her, too!  He shows up, like, 3 times in the Quran, so I’m guessing he wasn’t really all that great.
  • You might recognize Elisha as the guy in the Old Testament who was harassed by some children.  They made fun of him for being bald, so he asked God to help him.  God sent two she-bears who tore the kids to pieces. The Quran doesn’t mention this little story.  Mohammed’s just name dropping to fit in with the other monotheists.
  • Jonah gets a couple of shout outs in the Quran.  Here’s the verse from chapter 37 where God explains what happened to old Jonah:

    37:139. Verily Jonah is one of the apostles.
    37:140. When he fled on the laden ship,

    37:141. And lots were cast (when a storm overtook them), he was rejected, (and thrown overboard).

    37:142. Then he was swallowed by a large fish as he was worthy of blame.

    37:143. Had he not been one of those who struggled hard,

    37:144. He would have stayed in its belly till the day the dead are raised.

    37:145. So We cast him, sick, on a barren shore,

    37:146. And We made a gourd tree grow over him.

    37:147. We sent him to a hundred thousand men or more,

    37:
    148. And they came to believe; so We allowed them to enjoy the good things of life for an age.

    So Jonah was thrown overboard and swallowed by a “large fish.”  And he would have just stayed in there until Judgement Day, because this particular large fish had a really, really slow digestive tract.  But God made the large fish puke Jonah out, and he sent to his aid approximately 100,000 men.  Or maybe more.  God’s not so good with the numbers.  And they all lived happily ever after.

  • And then, of course, there’s Lot.  There’s a lot of Lot in the Quran.  Guess what?  He’s just as fucked up in the Quran as he is in the Bible!  First read what God has to say about Lot in chapter 21:

    21:74. To Lot We gave wisdom and knowledge, and saved him from a people who acted villainously and were certainly wicked and disobedient.
    21:75. Thus We admitted him to Our grace. He is surely one of the righteous.

    And then check out how “righteous” Lot actually was:

    11:77. So when Our angels came to Lot, he grieved for them, and felt powerless to help them, and said: “This is a day of sorrow.
    11:78. His people came excited to him. They were addicted to sin already. Said (Lot): “O my people, these daughters of mine are cleaner (and lawful) for you. Have fear of God, and do not shame me before my guests. Is there no man of discernment among you?”

    11:79. They said: “You know we have no need for your daughters, and know well what we want.”

    11:80. “I wish I had the power to resist you,” said (Lot), “or powerful support.”

    11:
    81. (The angels) said: “O Lot, we have verily been sent by your Lord. They will never be able to harm you. So, leave late at night with your family, and none of you should turn back to look; but your wife will suffer (the fate) they are going to suffer. Their hour of doom is in the morning: Is not the morning nigh?”

    Lot’s city is about to be destroyed by God.  And since Lot is such a great guy, God sends some angels down to warn him about it.  But then the townsmen show up and want to have gay sex with Lot’s angel-friends.  (This kinda shit happened all the time in Lot’s nabe.)  So he does what any God-fearing man would do.  That’s right: he offers up his virgin daughters to be gang-raped by the mob.  Here’s the same story in another chapter:

    15:61. When the messengers came to the family of Lot,
    15:62. He said: “You are people I do not know.”

    15:63. “We have come to you with news,” they said, “of what your people doubt;

    15:64. “Yet we bring to you the truth, and we are truthful.

    15:
    65. “So leave with your family late in the night, yourself remaining in the rear, and let none turn back to look, and go where you will be commanded.”
    15:66. We issued this command to him, for they were going to be destroyed in the morning.

    15:67. Then came the people of the city, exulting at the news.

    15:68. Said Lot: “These are my guests; do not put me to shame,

    15:69. “And do not disgrace me. Have some fear of God.”

    15:70. “Did we not restrain you,” they said, “from (entertaining) creatures from the outside world?”

    15:
    71. “Here are my daughters,” said Lot, “if you are so active.”

    Mohammed stopped just short of showing how active the mob actually is.  And he skipped over all the stuff in the Bible about how Lot’s daughters got him drunk and had sex with him.  Probably a wise decision.  I mean, offering up your daughters’ vaginas to a sex-crazed mob is one thing.  Getting drunk and fucking them yourself?  That’s crossing the line.

The story of Lot is probably my favorite one in the Bible / Quran.  But it’s also one that makes me a bit sad, because it recently cost me a good friendship.  I have a pretty devout Muslim friend, who is usually open to friendly religious discussion.  We were talking about some of the crazy shit in the Quran that I’m learning about.  He didn’t know about most of it, and his reply to everything was the same:  God knows what he’s doing.  And then I told him about this story.  He didn’t believe that it was in there, so I showed it to him.  And then I asked him, as a father to a 10 year old daughter, what he thought of this story.  He hasn’t talked to me since.

On a more positive note, I spent this morning discussing religion with someone I am very close with.  She’s a Muslim girl who has never read the Quran in English, and we were talking about how most Muslims don’t really know what was really in there.  I told her some of the stuff I’ve learned since I started this little project 3 weeks ago, and eventually the story of Lot came up.  I expected her to react the same way as my other friend.  She didn’t.  She said that learning things like this make her want to read the Quran for herself.  She asked for some advice on choosing which translation to read, and she’s coming by my place later to talk about it some more.

So there you have it.  As boring and tedious as it is to read this book, there is one thing that keeps me going:  the hope that it might make someone question the things they believe, maybe make them crack open the book for themselves.  Whether or not you agree with what I’m saying and the way I say it, something good is coming out of this.  That’s all I’m after.  Plain and simple.  How’s that for a feel-good ending?

Coming up next:  chapter 7, The Wall Between Heaven and Hell.  Oooooh, sounds dramatic!  It’s because God’s little helper elf, Ahmed Ali is at it again.  The rest of the translations title chapter 7 as The Heights.  This should be interesting.  Stay tuned!

Written by kafirgirl

July 27, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Posted in Quran

Tagged with

70 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. I don’t remember who said it but the best tool for turning Christians to non-believers is their own holy book.

    I guess that goes for the Quran as well.

    Db0

    July 27, 2008 at 2:57 pm

  2. Solomon has superpowers in the Quran? You know, its scary how sometimes the Quranic versions of the stories from the Bible seem like the Goofy Cartoon Version. Really scary, mind you, given that, well, you know, THE BIBLE. Not exactly an ungoofy source to begin with.

    It’s like kids on a playground, trying to out do each other in telling a story the coolest way:

    “So, like, Solomon, he’s like really, really smart, and the one time there’s these ladies fighting over a kid, and so like he says, hey, cut it in a half, and they go away.”

    “No, no, no, like, he’s got these invisible spirit butlers, and, and, and, he can control the wind, and so he blows the baby in two, and then he and the butlers go out for ice cream.”

    Sigh.

    Funny, though — that whole Solomon thing sounded Awfully Familiar, and I realized why. In medieval Christian folklore, Solomon was a sorcerer! This was in that whole rich area of non-Church approved folklore, which was rampant in Medieval Europe and in other Christian lands. What’s funny is that sorcery was condemned as being demonic and all, yet there was the belief, Solomon the magician. Those kind of unsanctioned beliefs tended to be holdovers from pagan pasts. It amuses me to think that Muhammad may have included pagan belief in the Quran.

    Gregory

    July 27, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  3. First up, If he wanted to really torture people, he’d make hell a book club where you read and discuss nothing but the Quran. Ha Ha …and Isaac becoming a cutter …Hilarious! Loved it……

    Even as this exercise serves as bloodletting for you (and others as we read along with you) it ‘informs’ you. While the blog might be most interesting only to fellow atheists/apostates, it will probably be your person that will effect more real change as you pass this information to people.

    sista

    July 27, 2008 at 6:34 pm

  4. “[006:096] He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.

    [006:097] It is He Who maketh the stars (as beacons) for you, that ye may guide yourselves, with their help, through the dark spaces of land and sea: We detail Our signs for people who know. ”

    Real gems from Sura 6.”He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity…..”.So, any muslim who works the night out to catch up with deadlines in modern days is on the wrong path.Further what does the inhabitatnt at the poles do? Work non-stop for six months(day) and rest non-stop for six months(night)? “It is He Who maketh the stars (as beacons) for you, that ye may guide yourselves>>>” shows that Allah is in 7th Century CE along with Mo.

    [006:104] “Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings.”

    God old Mo speaking here. Note “I am not (here) to watch over your doings”. Allah forgot to add Say(Qul in Arabic) at the start of the ayat.

    “[006:114] Shall I seek for a judge other than ALLAH, when HE it is WHO has sent down to you the Book fully explained ? And those to whom WE gave the Book know that it has been sent down from thy Lord with truth; so be thou not of those who doubt.”

    Again it is Mo speaking. Again Allah forgot to add “Say” at the start of the ayat.

    Anand

    July 27, 2008 at 9:27 pm

  5. “I have a pretty devout Muslim friend, who is usually open to friendly religious discussion. We were talking about some of the crazy shit in the Quran that I’m learning about. He didn’t know about most of it, and his reply to everything was the same: God knows what he’s doing. And then I told him about this story. He didn’t believe that it was in there, so I showed it to him. And then I asked him, as a father to a 10 year old daughter, what he thought of this story. He hasn’t talked to me since.”

    Dont directly fire these things at your muslim friends. Begin with gentler questions like “How u will say ur daily 5 prayers in ther poles which have continuous day for 6 months and continuous night for 6 months? How will u fast in Ramazan at these poles? How will u say namaaz in space by facing Kaaba?”

    Anand

    July 27, 2008 at 9:32 pm

  6. Db0, so true. The book is its own worst enemy.

    Gregory, you’re so spot on. It’s like Islam turned Christianity into a caricature, only Christianity was a caricature to begin with. BTW, in Christianity, Solomon was the one with the hair, right? That story always freaked me out a little.

    Sista, you’re right. It’s my physical interaction with people that will have more of an affect on people. I mean, I’m just as snarky to their faces as I am on this site, but for some reason, I think they realize that it’s not a personal attack on them or anything. And then, of course, they don’t suspect me of being an undercover Jew. I’m sure that helps a bit, too.

    Hey Anand, get this: my translation of the Quran actually has “Say” at the beginning of the two verses you mentioned (6:104, 6:114). But there’s no “Say” (“Qul” ) in the accompanying Arabic. Unfuckingbelievable right?

    As for my friend, we’ve been talking about religion for years. He’s always been very open to discussing these things, but for some reason the Lot story just threw him over the edge. He has a 10 year old daughter. I think perhaps the idea of what he would do in that situation made him think things he later regretted. He can’t get pissed at God, so he’s angry with me for making him think it. I can live with that.

    kafirgirl

    July 27, 2008 at 9:44 pm

  7. kafirgirl — With the hair? I’m drawing a blank concerning Solomon and hair. Did he do something gross with hair? It’s been too long since I read the Old Testament (these days, I turn more to Stephen King for horror).

    Gregory

    July 28, 2008 at 12:24 am

  8. [i]Hey Anand, get this: my translation of the Quran actually has “Say” at the beginning of the two verses you mentioned (6:104, 6:114). But there’s no “Say” (”Qul” ) in the accompanying Arabic. Unfuckingbelievable right?[/i]

    Correct. Other such verses in Quran are 11:2; 27:91,51:50/51:51/19;64.

    Allah forgot to put “Qul” here.

    Then Allah put Qul at the wrong places too-Verses 39:10/39:53.

    Anand

    July 28, 2008 at 1:21 am

  9. THE translators helping Allah out. Instead of adding words in translation and keeping their faith, why these people dont dump their faith?

    Anand

    July 28, 2008 at 1:22 am

  10. I believe with the hair comment she is referring to, I can’t remember if his name is Solomon or not but if his name is Solomon is is a different person than the supposed author of Song of Solomon. Anyway, this person was given super strength by God but he was commanded as part of his “covenant” with God to never cut his hair or he would lose all his power. Cutting his hair was his version of kryptonite. I believe that is what Kafirgirl was referring to.

    Archaneus

    July 28, 2008 at 3:10 am

  11. Archaneus — oh, Samson! Super Hair Dude! I should’ve remembered that, if only from the silly 1950s swords and sandals movie.

    Gregory

    July 28, 2008 at 3:41 am

  12. That was Sampson, with the hair. It’s in Judges 14-16.

    watercat

    July 28, 2008 at 3:41 am

  13. The “hair-guy” was Sampson. Remember he slew the Philistines a lot with the jaw bone of an ass (donkey!). He killed himself and, guess what, even more Philistines by pushing the building columns down with his bare hands.

    Oz

    July 28, 2008 at 3:43 am

  14. “If he wanted to really torture people, he’d make hell a book club where you read and discuss nothing but the Quran. ”

    Doesn’t that sound like Madrasas?

    I found this about them –> http://www.islam-watch.org/SujitDas/Madrasa.htm

    Brg

    brg

    July 28, 2008 at 6:27 am

  15. Kafira,

    Regarding sura 3:7, I have found this –> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_interpretation_of_the_Qur%27an#Islamic_legitimacy check it out!

    brg

    July 28, 2008 at 6:46 am

  16. Aha, Sampson! Man. I can’t keep my names straight anymore. This cast of characters is getting a little out of control. P.S. Oz, Sampson sounds like he’s straight out of a comic book. Man. I never thought I’d say this, but the Bible sounds fun.

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 7:37 am

  17. A Jewish friend told me that they have a joke saying that the afterlive will be a place where everybody has to continuously read and discuss the bible. For believers it will be heaven, for unbelievers it will be hell….

    H.C.

    July 28, 2008 at 7:45 am

  18. Gregory there was a ’50s sword and sandals movie about Sampson?? Snap, I know what’s next on my Netflix queue.

    So I was totally confused between Sampson and Solomon. Now I’m vaguely remembering that Solomon was connected to David somehow. But he didn’t have any super powers in Christianity, huh?

    H.C. That sounds about right. Hilarious!

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 8:14 am

  19. Brg, interesting. I’ll have to read up some more on it. I don’t know a whole lot about Sufi’s, but I do remember learning that they tried to “experience closeness with God” during this lifetime. If you’ve ever heard the phrase whirling dervish, it’s referring to Sufi’s when they spin around and around in circles. They take that whole hidden meaning in the Quran thing very seriously.

    I can’t remember ever discussing any of that with my family of Sunday school teachers. I do remember them saying that the unexplained letters were a mystery of God and that only he knew the meaning. So it made no sense to me that he would even include it in the book.

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 8:32 am

  20. On the above comments on Samson,

    It always struck me that he would qualify as the earliest recorded ‘suicide bomber’.

    Something I always like to remind Christians of when they seem to think it’s something to be identified with other religeons.

    Kevin Greene

    July 28, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  21. Kevin, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Oh the irony.

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 12:45 pm

  22. “43. We restored his family to him with others similar to them, as a blessing from Us and a reminder for men of wisdom. —”

    Am I misreading this, or is this like when you were little and went to camp, but your dog died when you were gone and your parents got you another dog that looked mostly like the first one, and hoped you wouldn’t notice?

    Rob

    July 28, 2008 at 1:16 pm

  23. Rob, I died laughing. And then God replaced me with a me that looks almost exactly like me.

    Kinda makes me think of Pet Sematary. If wonder if the new Job family was the evil version of the old Job family.

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 1:24 pm

  24. 43. We restored his family to him with others similar to them, as a blessing from Us and a reminder for men of wisdom.

    Yeah, I was just about to comment on that line. My question is… a reminder to what, exactly? That, if you love your wfe and children, don’t for Chrissakes go smiling and whistling ‘life’s a bag of peaches’ in case God and Satan are kicking the dirt and wondering what to do that day?

    And… it’s God. Necromancy’s off the table?

    Sarah Smallwood

    July 28, 2008 at 2:23 pm

  25. I can’t believe I missed that the first time around. The moral of the story is that we’re all replaceable. Here’s what I don’t get though: why did he replace them with dopplegangers? Why not just put them back exactly as they were? *Poof!* Hi Job, we’re back!

    P.S. Anyone care to ‘splain to me what the official Christian version of this is?

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 2:37 pm

  26. geniusofevil

    July 28, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  27. I think from the King James version that the original family can’t be read as being magically restored, with a twitch of the nose and a puff of smoke. No doplegangers clones or raised up zombies here.

    Which is just more proof of god being a dick since that’s the kind of thing it’s reported that he should have been able to do.

    Rather it seems to me that god foisted off a second different wife, and a second new set of children with their own new names and thought that this would be an OK replacement since they (the daughters anyway) where all beautiful children.

    ‘Forget about those loved ones of yours that I had killed. Here’s an equal number of replacement people to take their place. So we’re all good and everythings back to normal. Right?’

    Kevin Greene

    July 28, 2008 at 4:40 pm

  28. kafirgirl — i *think* the title of the movie was samson and delilah, by none other than Mr. Swords and Sandals himself, Cecil B. Demille. And it looks like it’s not on Netflix, dangit. I remember it being just, wow, too funny for words (it’s actually from 1949, imdb tells me).

    In the Job story, as I recall from the Bible, it’s the same deal — everything gets replaced with 2.0 versions. Kids, lifestock, slaves — it’s all the same in this patriarchal culture. Job lost his swag, but he got new stuff! I can’t remember if his wife dies, though.

    Gregory

    July 28, 2008 at 4:56 pm

  29. “Jacob is Abraham’s other son, but he’s not really mentioned at all. God plays favorites.”

    Isn’t Jacob one of Isaac’s two sons (the other being Esau)?

    Jon

    July 28, 2008 at 5:13 pm

  30. Jon, I only referenced my Quran, and it says about Abraham:

    6:84. And We gave him Isaac and Jacob and guided them

    Which I understood as Isaac and Jacob, sons of Abraham. There is nothing else that I could find (using just my Quran’s index) that says he is the son of either Abraham or Isaac.

    But a search online confirmed it — you are correct, sir. He was not the son of Abraham. He was the son of Isaac, and the grandson of Abraham. I’ll make a correction. Thank you for pointing that out!

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 5:46 pm

  31. KafirGirl …. Hats off to you.

    When I came across your blog and noticed the tag-line “We read the Koran so you don’t have to”. I thought it was just a glib quip. Something short and crispy for witty effect.

    But now I feel this is a completely literal statement. I sincerely doubt I could summon the mental fortitude to wade through this drivel and keep at it beyond a few minutes. I would have given up due to sheer exhaustion of having to read not just capricious and whimsical nonsense – but stuff that is downright wicked and pernicious.

    You are genuinely doing us a service by combing through God’s gutter so that we don’t have to!!

    But I guess it needs to be done. Otherwise there are only 2 “spokespersons” of Islam. One – the raving extremist lunatics; Two – the wimpy apologists who claim that Islam is a religion of peace that has been ‘hijacked’ by mean-spirited bullies.

    BULLSHIT!! Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Religion, is generally not in the peace-making business. Islam like all its cousins is a fascist ideology that insists on having the largest domain over which to exert its ruthless dominion.

    Its time that we stop this pussy-footing around religion and stop treating these bronze-age superstitions with an aura of nobility and moral superiority.

    And you, my friend, are leading that charge. You are kicking them in the nuts. And for that, you have my admiration and support. You go girl!!

    Respectfully,
    Rahul.

    Rahul

    July 28, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  32. Kafirgirl
    You may have covered this and I missed it. I notice above that God/Allah often using a plural referring to himself as “we”. Is this explained at all? Or is this another “inerrancy”?

    Oz

    July 28, 2008 at 9:56 pm

  33. Hey Rahul. You know what? Everytime I read the word “glib” i cringe. And I don’t mean cringe in that reading-something-on-the-internet way. I mean I literally cringe. My faces smooshes up and I say “Blaaaaach.” Tom Cruise did that. Tom Cruise ruined the word “glib” forfreakingever. One more reason to hate him, I guess.

    Its time that we stop this pussy-footing around religion and stop treating these bronze-age superstitions with an aura of nobility and moral superiority.

    You said it so well that there’s nothing more I could add. It’s time. And I’m so glad that you think I’m doing something that might help kick start that change. It’s that thought that keeps me reading chapter after boring chapter. Thank you for all the kind words.

    High five!

    P.S. I’m starting to have that same reaction to the word “merciful.” It’s starting to make me gag a little.

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 9:56 pm

  34. Oz, I talked about it briefly in the very first post (chapter 1). I suspected it was the royal We. We as in he’s important and he capitalizes We even though it’s in the middle of the sentence. But sometimes he uses I, so it gets confusing.

    Spoiler: in chapter 7, I came across a verse that says We and then switches to I. And then back to We. What’s up with that?

    kafirgirl

    July 28, 2008 at 10:00 pm

  35. Prof Abe taking science classes. Greatest scientist of the world-Prof. Abe.
    “Bethink thee of him who had an argument with Abraham about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom; how, when Abraham said: My Lord is He Who giveth life and causeth death, he answered: I give life and cause death. Abraham said: Lo! Allah causeth the sun to rise in the East, so do thou cause it to come up from the West. Thus was the disbeliever abashed. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. “[2:260]

    “Abraham said: Lo! Allah causeth the sun to rise in the East, so do thou cause it to come up from the West. Thus was the disbeliever abashed. “

    Anand

    July 28, 2008 at 11:30 pm

  36. Hey KafirGirl,

    Do you know if the so-called satanic verses are still a part of the Koran or have they been rescinded?

    Does Mr. Ahmend Ali include them in his version (perhaps with parentheses) or is it simply convenient to keep them totally out?

    Rahul

    July 29, 2008 at 5:59 pm

  37. Woah! Lot had sex with his daughters! Eeeew…there’s actually a lot of incest in the Qu’ran and other monotheistic religions. But I thought that was their way of trying to explain the beginning of humanity (Adam and Eve/Hawa getting their sons and daughters married to each other), but that is a weird and disgusting thing, considering that incest is forbidden by the Abrahamic religions. Isn’t Lot going to hell then?
    It’s funny, the Qu’ran hasn’t written everything about the prophets, missed some stuff out that were in the Bible and the Torah, considering it’s supposed to be updated.

    I had read that in the Qu’ran it was stated that the sun and moon revolve around the Earth, but when I said that to one of my friends she pretty much shouted at me to prove it..wanted me to recite the whole Qu’ran to her I think. Well, at least I can find it here and she can quit being a bitch to me about my beliefs :D

    Humra

    July 29, 2008 at 6:03 pm

  38. Rahul, great question. I actually looked that one up a few years ago out of curiosity. The actual so-called satanic verses are not in the Quran. Here’s what it does say:

    22.52. We have sent no messenger or apostle before you with whose recitations Satan did not tamper. Yet God abrogates what Satan interpolates; then He confirms His revelations, for God is all-knowing and all-wise.

    A little divine ass-covering there. Basically the story goes that Gabriel came down and yelled at Mohammed for saying the verses, at which point Mo decided that the debbil made him do it. Then God abrogated a verse, which is, like, soooooooo unheard of in the Quran.

    53:19. Have you considered Lat and ‘Uzza,
    53:20. And Manat, the other third (of the pagan deities)?
    53:21. Are there sons for you, and daughters for Him?
    53:22. This is certainly an unjust apportioning.
    53:23. These are only names which you and your fathers have invented. No authority was sent down by God for them. They only follow conjecture and wish-fulfilment, even though guidance had come to them already from their Lord.

    I especially like how God is insulted that the people would invent daughters for him as opposed to sons. Nice touch.

    kafirgirl

    July 29, 2008 at 6:07 pm

  39. Humra, he only had sex with his daughters in the Old Testament, not in the Quran. Mo stopped just short of that.

    kafirgirl

    July 29, 2008 at 6:10 pm

  40. @ Rahul: I read that Mohammed had deleted them himself (or was it Abu Bakr) because they themselves realised it was the devil’s doing. But I think the Satanic verses have come up in certain hadiths.

    Here’s a couple of sites which explain it:

    http://www.muhammadanism.org/quran/SatanicVerses.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses

    Humra

    July 29, 2008 at 6:14 pm

  41. Humra, he did retract them hlmself.

    I wonder what kind of reaction that got from the converts.

    kafirgirl

    July 29, 2008 at 6:19 pm

  42. This is interesting:

    http://www.biblestudy.org/question/was-lot-alcoholic.html

    Anyway, the whole mohammed being a descendant of Abraham seems interesting…(I’ve seen a family tree from abraham to mohammed and all the other prophets in there too, so apparently they were all related!) If they were all related (no proof they were, and I doubt it), and many muslims would obviously see this as proof of mohammed’s prophecy. But i see it as something different, what if they all carry some sort of mental illness that can be passed onto their siblings. Right now am thinking schitzophrenia, but mohammed also seems to have some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder (obsession with 3 e.g. wudu). Might do a lil research on that..

    Humra

    July 29, 2008 at 6:55 pm

  43. Same here, wouldn’t they have lost faith in him?

    Even with the controvesy of Salman Rushdie, in the end he asked a perfectly honest question…What if everything in the Qu’ran is by the devil (or just delusional).

    Humra

    July 29, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  44. @Kafirlgirl
    Verse 2:106 says Allah abrogates his words. Verse 22:52 says Allah abrogates Satan’s words. So, Allah=Satan?

    Anand

    July 29, 2008 at 9:47 pm

  45. “53:23. These are only names which you and your fathers have invented. No authority was sent down by God for them. They only follow conjecture and wish-fulfilment, even though guidance had come to them already from their Lord.”

    Examine this verse. Every damned thing that u do must confirm to authority sent down by the Lord/Guidance sent down by the Lord.

    So, some book of God should teach us how to sit, how to stand….down to the fart and the little fart.

    Anand

    July 29, 2008 at 9:50 pm

  46. I heard your shoutout on the Non-Prophets! Wooooo!

    Scott

    July 30, 2008 at 4:13 am

  47. Scott, it caught me totally off guard. Mostly because Russell said he was learning so much from the blog. People are learning something from this shiz? Success! I think I’ll buy myself a drink for that one. I’ve earned it.

    kafirgirl

    July 30, 2008 at 11:32 am

  48. Hi Kafirgirl
    A big ‘thank you’ to you for your work here.
    Absolutely fantastic. I’ve studied the quran,
    but I’ve never had so much fun doing it
    as I have reading your stuff.

    I’m jumping in here, even though I’m only
    at the ‘4. The women’ section, cause I just
    heard on the the news (I live in Denmark)
    that seven Danish islamic organisations are taking
    the case against the editors of the paper
    that published the Mohammad-cartoons
    to the supreme court.

    The jaw-dropping hilarious stupidity:
    publishing and teaching a book
    telling people to kill non-muslins
    (like; just about all inhabitants in this country)
    is OK and fine…….but publish a fucking drawing of Mo
    and ohhhhh; they have to be punished.

    Just hope that someone has the guts (I don’t)
    to take those organisations representing the quran
    to court for publishing a book that
    urges to kill people like me (infidels)
    That is in fact illegal.
    I think they’d have a pretty good case.

    Again: Thanks!

    Bongo

    July 30, 2008 at 3:43 pm

  49. Hey Bongo! You’re studying the Quran, too? High five! Please jump in with any stuff I may have missed in the other chapters. It’s always great to get someone else’s take on things.

    The whole not-drawing-Mohammed thing has always really bothered me. And I haven’t actually come across anything in the Quran that says you can’t draw him. So I’m not really sure where that comes from (hadith, maybe?). Either way, it’s a pile of bullshit.

    kafirgirl

    July 30, 2008 at 9:09 pm

  50. The stuff about drawings is from Musa’s time and it’s in Tawrat, Kafir Girl. Like, u know in ancient israel these archaeolgists have done tons of excavations and they never find Jewish pictures in normal homes cos of the Mosaic Law (as in hadarat Musa), ‘thou must not draw stuff that is alive.” This got carried over to Islam.
    So u get geometric patters and the like in ancient jewish houses. But guess this, if you go the wealthy Jewish houses and then the houses of the high priesthood then u find the rules slip and u get beautiful murals of birds and animals. But hey, they’re alive, right? So rich folks and the mullahocracy were breaking their own rules even back then, while the people they ruled over were walking around ancient israel seeing all these Roman statues muttering darkly, “Haraaam. Haraaam.”
    Sound familiar?
    Interesting that ure retard co worker only want the GREEN pad. Green is the color of ‘peace’ and ‘serenity’ in Islam.

    jasmine

    July 31, 2008 at 7:23 am

  51. oh, sorry, ok, not drawing Muhammad, it’s so Muslims don’t make ibadah for him. Odd cos Shia Muslims draw Imam Ali all the time in these big portrait things and they don’t seem to worship him.
    Muhammad always claimed, I got the words of Allah in me mouth (Kalaam), but hey, “I’m not actually that important.” It’s a brilliant form of early doublethink, Muhammad is the key to understanding Allah-part of the Kalima tayyiba- “La ila ha il alaaah- muhammad ar rasul allah,” and yet denounces his own importance. Drawing him would have messed with that.
    Stalin did exactly the same, he said “I am the party, but then I’m just a no nobody,” and his salary at the height of his power was $7 a month. He had a similar relationship to Lenin as Muhammad does to Allah.
    I think also it’s Muslims who thought, “We’ll never be able to draw exquisiite icons like those kafir Byzantines of Issa,” so let’s just make it simple and not even try- we’ll ban it.

    jasmine

    July 31, 2008 at 7:33 am

  52. So it was a Jewish law, huh? Interesting. I’ll definitely have to read up on that. I think after I’m done with the Quran, I’m going to start reading the Old Testament. Go back to the root of it.

    I just read this entire thing about how Mohammed wasn’t actually illiterate since he ran his first wife’s very successful merchant business. Plus God commands him to “read” a few times in the Quran. The footnote in my Quran actually says that what they meant by “illiterate” is that he had no prior knowledge of Judaism or Christianity. So those revelations he received must be true, because how could he have made that up?

    ….um, he was a liar. Yeah. That’s basically all it fucking comes down to.

    kafirgirl

    July 31, 2008 at 8:15 am

  53. “La ila ha il alaaah- muhammad ar rasul allah,”

    Interestingly this is shirk. Imagine associating Muhammad as partner of Allah. Without belief in Mo, belief in A doesnt count.

    I heard that muslims recite this kalima as part of their daily prayers in mosque? If that is the case, they violate verse 72:18 which says invoke no one except Allah.

    Unislamic Kalima tayyab???

    anand

    July 31, 2008 at 10:29 am

  54. @ anand: That is the first kalima and I have been told that if one wants to convert to Islam all they have to do is recite that kalima with no doubt in their heart. I have to agree with you though, most muslims associate mo with Allah, which is really wierd. When I was in Pakistan once I was taken to some big mosque which was crowded with loads of people. All the people were crying and screamimg and praying and calling out Mo!

    The kalima being ‘unislamic’…hmmm..that’s something someone will have to take up with a imam or scholar..and survive.

    Humra

    July 31, 2008 at 3:30 pm

  55. Mo had no prior knowledge of judaism and christianity? I doubt that, he must have had an idea, especially since his business was about coming into contact with a variety of people and if he was such a nice guy I’m sure he would have ahd a conversation with them which could even stem to religion.

    I was told he couldn’t read, news to me that he could. Thanks for the info :D

    Humra

    July 31, 2008 at 3:34 pm

  56. Yeah, Humra, i was being waaaay sarcastic. He was trying to pass himself off as this guy who had never learned about the Jewish and Christian stories of God. As if it made him more credible. Like hell.

    There are a lot of people here who don’t know what a kalima is. It’s something Muslims say during prayer, and if someone wants to convert to Islam, they have to say the kalima as an oath:

    There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.

    Do me a favor, guys. I know you guys know what these words mean, but there are a lot of people who read this who have no idea what words like shirk and kalima and tayyab mean. I’m sure they (and I) would really appreciate it if you would use the English word in place of or in addition to the Arabic. Thank ye!

    kafirgirl

    July 31, 2008 at 3:41 pm

  57. “There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.”

    If they stop at “There is no God”, it wud be wunderful. Isnt it?. This is called “modernisation of Islam”.

    Anand

    August 1, 2008 at 5:03 am

  58. Kafirgirl said:
    “..Hey Bongo! You’re studying the Quran, too? High five! Please jump in with any stuff I may have missed in the other chapters. It’s always great to get someone else’s take on things..”
    Thank you Kafirgirl but I’ll just sit here with my popcorn
    and let you do the work!

    .-)

    No seriously; you’re doing such a fine job,
    but I’ll jump in if I have anything to ad.

    Ladies and gentlemen:
    bets are now taken:
    Will Kafirgirl be able to chew her way through
    all 114 surahs ?
    Will she lose her wits at 70.th surah ?
    …or before ?

    Keep it up girl !

    Bongo

    August 1, 2008 at 1:05 pm

  59. 15:71. “Here are my daughters,” said Lot, “if you are so active.”

    It seems it still goes on in middle east. This is an authentic account told by a friend of mine, let’s cal him ‘A’. He was working in Qatar and staying in one of colonies with his family. Once he was invited by one of local colleagues, let’s call him ‘B’. B falls in the owner/manager category and A is a technical honcho. A, along with another common friend X went to B’s home which was about 120km away from his colony. He drove their. Although liquor is banned out there, but it is only for non-influential people. So B served them good food as well as liqour. In Qatar if you are caught driving when drunk, you are in a lot of shit. So A was quite worried about driving back to his colony, as both A and X were a little high.

    B told them both to stay at his residence and avoid drunken driving. A and X did not want to stay at his home as well. That is when B dropped bomb shell and said:” If you guys are feeling lonely without your wives after this nice food and drink, do not worry, you can sleep with my sister.”

    A says he did not know how to react and after making some silly excuses came back in a taxi.

    So I guess offering sister and women for sex was nothing big for all these guys.

    KK

    August 17, 2008 at 11:31 am

  60. KK, I disagree with you on that one. You’re using one story from one of your friends and applying it to an entire group of people. Pretty sure that’s a hasty generalization and an unrepresentative sample.

    You imply that this only goes on in the Middle East. Bullshit. It goes on everywhere. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a country in which someone wasn’t pimping out their sister, daughter or wife. There are crazies everywhere.

    The fact that they’re in the Quran is what’s relevant here.

    kafirgirl

    August 17, 2008 at 11:43 am

  61. Just wondering how did Mo the man came up with God=Allah.

    I guess this is how it happened:

    So the unbelievers ask: “What name do you give to the almighty who you say is all merciful.”

    Mo: “I guess ..er…we can er… call him…er…Abd….er…allah. I mean..Allah, the all merciful. Praise him.”

    It is easier to coin a new name for God if you know your father’s name.

    KK

    August 17, 2008 at 11:52 am

  62. Actually, Allah is literally Al-Lah — “The God.” It’s not a new name. And, um, Abdullah just means “servant of god.”

    kafirgirl

    August 17, 2008 at 11:55 am

  63. Bong; So far, through ch 7 we’ve done 1,160 verses out of some 6,236. That’s 19%, a fifth of the book. High Five! She’ll get it done, just have faith.

    80. Her people argued, and they said: “Do you argue with me about Kafirgirl? She has guided me already, and I fear not what you associate with Her, unless She wills, for held within the knowledge of Kafirgirl is everything. Will you not reflect?

    watercat

    August 17, 2008 at 12:54 pm

  64. 11:81. (The angels) said: “O Lot, we have verily been sent by your Lord. They will never be able to harm you. So, leave late at night with your family, and none of you should turn back to look; but your wife will suffer (the fate) they are going to suffer. Their hour of doom is in the morning: Is not the morning nigh?”

    Something i don’t get – if this shit is before they skipped town, why did they say ‘…your wife will suffer (the fate) they are going to suffer.’ Did they know in advance she was going to look back, or does the Quran state she stayed behind or some shit? What’s the deal with the wife getting the shaft, anyway. I’m sure you’ve noticed she doesn’t have a name, i’m also certain this does not surprise you. If a woman is worth 1/2 a man in the Quran, shouldn’t she at least get half a name? [think grunts or something] This sexism is not uncommon in Abrahamic monotheism. Even in the bible there are no heroines. All women are portrayed as clumsy and in the way, or evil temptresses bearing the evils of [whispers] ssssssssssexxxx!! Compound that with the fear of menstrual blood and other wonderful things these illeterate ignorant fucks were contemplating at the time and you have the finest snapshot of what those ages were all about.

    Priest

    August 18, 2008 at 8:41 pm

  65. Priest, I think you and I are going to get along juuuuuusssst fiiiiiinnnne. High five!

    P.S. Mary’s mother doesn’t have a name either. Shocker.

    kafirgirl

    August 18, 2008 at 8:48 pm

  66. kafirgirl wrote
    »Actually, Allah is literally Al-Lah — “The God.”«

    Yes, the most common theory is that “Allah” came from “al-Ilah”, “the god”.
    But god’s name in Aramaic is “Alaha”, with the “a” at the end just for grammatical reasons. “Alaha” comes from “Eloah”, “Alahumma” might come from “Elohim”.

    kereng

    August 21, 2008 at 2:30 pm

  67. The sun and moon don’t overtake each other? Even then surely he’d have noticed the different phases of the moon at different times of the month??!

    A Different Michael

    August 22, 2008 at 7:47 am

  68. A Different Michael, I changed your name from Michael because there’s a regular commenter also named Michael and I didn’t want to cause a bunch of confusion.

    I think, actually, the Arabs were very familiar with the moon — some of the pagans actually worshiped it. The overtaking the moon bit is more about how the sun doesn’t PASS the moon. As in both of them are going around the flat earth. They’re so well-timed to never pass one another — it must be God’s work!

    kafirgirl

    August 22, 2008 at 9:09 am

  69. The sun overtakes the moon once a month at new moon (regarding the seeming motion).
    It overtakes the moon once a year regarding the actual motion, no matter if you take the Milky Way or larger frames as a point of reference.

    kereng

    August 25, 2008 at 5:15 pm

  70. Again, just for posterity, because I know there are others working their way through from the beginning like me.

    In the Islamic tradition, John did not have a wife. He was an ascetic who lived near the River Jordan and was basically an ancient hippy.

    In the common Islamic tradition, it was Ishmael (Isma’il) who was to be sacrificied, not Isaac (Ishaq), and this is a point of contention you commonly hear about between Jews and Muslims (as if it matters).

    To be fair to Lot, as well as the Muslim understanding(grumble), it is generally supposed that by ‘my daughters’ he was speaking as a nation-community leader, not his biological daughters specifically. But ‘my daughters’ as in the unmarried women of that place, the way leaders refer to ‘our sons and daughters’ today. It’s definitely the way it is taught and understood by the ulemaa. The reason the Biblical story of him raping his daughters wouldn’t be part of the Islamic tradition is that whole thing about saying the prophets are free from sin. I know, it doesn’t make sense in the context of what we know about the Mo Man, but it makes complete sense from the Islamic viewpoint. From the Muslims’ perspective, there is no way someone like Lot could have gotten drunk and raped his daughters, as it would be unbecoming of him and as a prophet, he would have been protected from a sin like this.

    To be fair to the Arabic, the word iqra is also used to mean ‘recite!’ which is why the Muslims say that the prophet was unlettered – something common for his time. I hear Muslims using the word ‘read’ to mean reciting and memorising, as I think some Europeans do. EG, ‘I read philosophy with him’ or ‘I read aqeeda with her.’

    Regarding the drawing of Muhammad, in the Sunni Islamic tradition, it is not permissible to draw or sculpt any living human being or animal. It is said that to do so is to attempt to recreate what God has recreated and this is forbidden. Scholars differ on photography. It is permissible in the Shia tradition, and there are Shia drawings of the Prophet, Fatima, Ali, Hasan, Hussein, and so on.

    As bat shit crazy as Islam is, there is stuff in the Old Testament and New Testament that is, hands down, a whole lot stupider. Plus, KG, you’re having a hard time with the Quran now. Imagine reading the Bible with all the ‘and begat so and so, and so and so begat so and so, and so and so begat so and so.’ It does tend to go on. You might, however, like to read the Australian surfer translation of the Bible. It really exists and is written in surfer lingo.

    Happy To Be Gone

    October 8, 2008 at 6:43 am


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 59 other followers

%d bloggers like this: