KafirGirl

We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

5: The Feast (Part II — The verse that rocked my world.)

with 27 comments

I have a confession to make.  You may want to sit down for this: I, Kafir Girl, have been totally desecrating my Quran.  It’s not like I’ve been going out of my way to shit on the book or anything, because, ew, I still have to read the damn thing.  It’s just that I’ve been carrying it around with me everywhere; it’s bound to get a little dirty.

I’ve sat on it, I’ve used it as a footrest, I’ve read it while sitting on the toilet.  I’ve put it on the floor, and later found my dog using it as a pillow.  I’ve written “What the fuck?” and “This is retarded” in the margins.  And then there was the worst offense ever:  I ate dinner at the coffee table and I set my plate down on top of the Quran.  …and I accidentally spilled a little pork chop juice on the cover.  On a scale of 1-10, 1 being gardens and streams of flowing rivers, and 10 being an endless lake of fire, I would say I’ve earned about an 8.

I mention all of this because there’s been a lot of talk about desecrating communion wafers and Qurans lately, and I felt that I should fess up.  And also let any Muslims know that I have not been struck by lightning or turned into a pig or anything.  Not even when I let my dog lick the pork chop juice off the Quran’s cover.  Seriously.  Get over it.  It’s just a fucking book.

And a super boring book at that.   Things are getting mighty repetitive, and I have to re-read things a few times to actually soak up anything.  It’s all the same blahddey blah blah God-hell-Mohammed talk, and I get bored.  And when I get bored, I fall asleep, pen in hand, Quran on face (this, too, would be considered desecration).

I did, however, just stumble onto a verse that is so awesome, so right, that it deserved a post of its own.  To be fair, it’s actually 2 consecutive verses; together they form one really simple thought.  It’s a gold nugget floating in a sea of turds, and it’s definitely worth discussing.  Ready for it?  Here you go:

101.  O believers, do not ask about things which, if made known to you, may vex you. But if you ask about them when the Qur’an is being revealed they will be unfolded to you. God has overlooked (your failings) in this (respect), for God is forgiving and forbearing.
102.  Such things were asked by a people before you, but they disbelieved them afterwards.

I’m having that Flintstones moment again.  The one where everything goes all quiet and all I can hear is the sound of my blinking.  Blink blink.  Blink.  Is it just me, or did God just make a big booboo?  He just told people not to ask too many questions, or else they may lose their faith.  What they learn might trouble them.  It’s happened before, and it has made people lose their faith.

Holy.  Shit.  I finally came across something in the Quran that actually makes some sense:  asking questions leads to learning, which in turn leads to knowledge, and knowledge can make you lose your faith!

I had to check some other translations to make sure this wasn’t watered down too much.  There are those suspicious (words) in (parentheses) that are kind of a red flag, because Ahmed Ali is a (fucking) apologist.  Here are two versions.  The first is the Yusuf Ali translation, which, like Ahmed Ali’s translation, is one of the most widely accepted versions in the world:

Yusuf Ali
101.  O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur’an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.
102.  Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.

And, just for fun, here’s the Progressive Muslims translation, which is definitely not widely accepted, but it’s good for comparison:

Progressive Muslims
101.  O you who believe, do not ask about things which, if revealed to you, would harm you; and if you ask about them after the Quran has been sent down, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
102.  A people before you had asked the same, then they became rejecters in it.

Check, and check.  Both versions are really similar to the Ahmed Ali version.  Bingo.

In a nutshell, this is what Mohammed is saying:  oh my fucking God, why won’t these people stop asking me questions?  Whhhhy?  How the hell am I supposed to answer these things?  I don’t even know basic biology and I think the earth is flat.  I’m totally making this shit up as I go along.  If they keep asking questions, I am royally fucked.  Better tell ‘em God doesn’t want them to ask anything, or else they’ll never stop.

Dayum.  Insecure much?  If he wasn’t such a fucking asshole, I might even feel sorry for him.  It can’t be easy starting a religion.  I mean, if someone tries to tell me that God is his BFF, I would not believe him.  I would think he was a lunatic.  I would have a hell of a lot of questions, and I’d want serious answers.  I imagine the Arabs did, too.  I imagine that Mo was making shit up, and someone busted his ass.  Maybe that’s why he hates it when people question religion.  Questions exposed him for the fraud he really was.

I turned to the hadith to maybe get a little insight into what Mohammed might have been like.  Hadith are, in my opinion, nothing but hearsay, so take that for what it’s worth.  Check it out:

Volume 1, Book 3, Number 92:
Narrated Abu Musa:
The Prophet was asked about things which he did not like, but when the questioners insisted, the Prophet got angry. He then said to the people, “Ask me anything you like.” A man asked, “Who is my father?” The Prophet replied, “Your father is Hudhafa.” Then another man got up and said, “Who is my father, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “Your father is Salim, Maula (the freed slave) of Shaiba.” So when ‘Umar saw that (the anger) on the face of the Prophet he said, “O Allah’s Apostle! We repent to Allah (Our offending you).”

I get that one.  Mohammed was no Sylvia Browne.  He couldn’t do a cold read.  But in that case, why not just say, “I can’t answer that because I wasn’t there when your mom fucked your dad.  Idiot.  I’m not God.”  It would have made the guys feels like such jackasses, and it would have made Mohammed a little credible.  OK maybe not credible.  How about just a little less crazy?

Volume 2, Book 24, Number 555:
Narrated Ash-sha’bi:
The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu’ba narrated, “Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira bin Shu’ba: Write to me something which you have heard from the Prophet (p.b.u.h) .” So Al-Mughira wrote: I heard the Prophet saying, “Allah has hated for you three things:
1. Vain talks, (useless talk) that you talk too much or about others.
2. Wasting of wealth (by extravagance)
3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters) or asking others for something (except in great need).

God hates vain talk?  The fuck?  You know who’s totally full of vain, useless talk?  God.  Someone please show him the Quran, so he’ll shut the hell up, once and for all.  Please.  Also, God hates extravagance?  OK, whatever, easy solution:  he should take away the excess money that people are spending extravagantly to even things out a little.  *Poof* Problem solved.  But he doesn’t do it.  Why?  Because he’s too fucking busy not existing.

And, of course, God hates it when people ask too many questions over disputed religious matters.  Or wait.  Mohammed says God hates it.  And that’s good enough for most people.  Here’s another one:

Volume 3, Book 41, Number 591:
Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu’ba:
The Prophet said, “Allah has forbidden for you,
(1) to be undutiful to your mothers,
(2) to bury your daughters alive,

(3) to not pay the rights of the others (e.g. charity, etc.) and
(4) to beg of men (begging).
And Allah has hated for you
(1) vain, useless talk, or that you talk too much about others,
(2) to ask too many questions, (in disputed religious matters) and
(3) to waste the wealth (by extravagance).

Don’t be undutiful to your mothers? OK, I can sort of get behind that.  Within certain limits, anyway.  I love my momma, but she’s been wrong about stuff before.  I wouldn’t just blindly accept anything she told me.  If I did, I wouldn’t be here calling Mohammed a bitch, would I?

Don’t bury your daughters alive.  I like that one.  I can get behind that 110%.  In fact I can one-up it.  How’s about this:  don’t treat women like a fucking commodity.  Don’t turn them into a throw-away item, so you won’t see your daughters as a useless extra mouth to feed.  Don’t treat your daughters as a liability.  Treat women like full-fledged human beings, so that when you have a baby girl, it’s not easier to just fucking bury her and get it over with.  How’s that for an idea?

Don’t pay charity on behalf of others and don’t resort to begging?  The fuck?  If someone has extra money lying around, and God doesn’t want them to spend it extravagantly, doesn’t it make sense for them to give  a little extra to charity?  Wouldn’t it potentially keep more people from begging?  Two birds, one stone.  Fuckin’ A.  God has no foresight.

((Correction: as Gregory pointed out, I read that part about charity wrong. I read a double negative where there wasn’t one. So scratch that last bit. God wants people to give to charity, and he does not want people begging. Good thing I never claimed to be free of doubt or involution, huh? Thanks, Gregory!))

And again, Muslims, don’t ask too much about disputed religious matters.  You might learn something.  And a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, because it makes you distrust some desert yokel who comes in claiming to have a direct line to God.  Don’t question Islam, because it crumbles under scrutiny. Or grow a pair and ask yourself this: cui bono? Who benefits from this arrangement?  But be careful.  You might fucking learn something. And that’s never done anyone any good, has it?

Coming up next:  Jeebux.  This time I mean it.  No diversions.  Stay tuned!

Written by kafirgirl

July 21, 2008 at 9:59 pm

Posted in Quran

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27 Responses

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  1. ….you are awesome.

    Yvette

    July 21, 2008 at 10:21 pm

  2. You mentioned before that you haven’t gotten much farther than pork chops since breaking that quran-ic taboo. May I suggest finding a good Japanese restaurant and giving a pork cutlet with Tonkatsu sauce a try? Good stuff! There’s also smoked pork ribs (my personal specialty), and, well, I could go on and on.

    Johnny Cache

    July 21, 2008 at 11:17 pm

  3. Just wait for when you get to Suras 33 and 49 (it seems a long way but by sura 80 or so they are all about the length of a fortune cookie). Sura 49, paraphrasing, basically has God saying don’t raise your voice above Muhammad’s or when you are speaking to him, or (as the translation I have says) “your good deeds may be cancelled out without you knowing”. Those who lower their voices when talking to Muhammad have “a great reward” but those who shout to Muhammad from outside his private rooms “lack understanding…If only they had the patience to wait for you to come out to them”.

    My favorite bit comes in Sura 33:53 as God lays down the rules for visiting Muhammad: “Do not enter the Prophet’s house for a meal without permission, and do not wait around while the meal is prepared but go in when invited, when you have finished the meal, leave. Do not stay and talk, such (behavior) annoys the Prophet, he is ashamed to dismiss you, though God is not ashamed to do so.”

    Also, having looked through the Hadith, God (at his most boastful), according to Muhammad, said: “I am so self-sufficient that I am in no need of having an associate. Thus he who does an action for someone else’s sake as well as Mine will have that action renounced by Me to him whom he associated with Me.”

    Michelle Stone

    July 22, 2008 at 12:02 am

  4. Am I reading that last one wrong? It seems to say you’re forbidden *not* to pay charity — ie, you have to.

    You know, I always wonder about something. I hear Muslims sometimes say that oh, those nasty old pagan Arabs were so bad, so mean, so ugly. Especially on the issue of women, as if to say “hey, Muhammad made things better! Half a man is way better than what they were before!” I guess that’s supposed to make it Okay. But do we have any proof of this, or is it just a smear campaign? Did pagans really bury their infant daughteres alive? I mean, do we have any actual *proof* of this? It seems like most of what we know of the culture of the pagan Arabs comes from…oh, yeah, Muslims. Hmm…

    I ask in part because Christians, say, had some whopper tales about Jews, Muslims, and Pagans. My skeptical spidey sense goes haywire every time I hear those “oh, those nasty pagan Arabs” stories.

    Gregory

    July 22, 2008 at 1:06 am

  5. ha ha ha, Kafir Girl, me sides are aching cos i can’t stop laughing right now.
    See, for those readers who was never Muslim, when we was believers as such (up till age 15 for me), muslim girls are permanently in a state of worry, tension and self doubt whenever handling this thing. Are hands clean, have u broken wind, any reason to run and scrub, any possible other ritual pollution that might contaminate the book- yeah, this for a girl with serious ocd’s like me!
    Now this is already so neurotic in me 15 year old head, the inherent neuroses of dealing with the Qu’ran the religion engenders anyhow was now going into overdrive- thus, cos of the ocd’s- which Qu’ran handling frequently sparked- I now imagine meself getting screwed on top of it, burning it, spitting on it and being submissively forced to lick it in front of the entire Umma on TV etc etc- on and on. All of this came to ahead on me (aborted) fourth Hajj when, one year after becoming a apostate, convinced that i was the most corrupt person on earth- I stayed in me tent hiding at Mina telling me mum and dad i had food poisioning. I did this cos i was terrified that if i went to the stonings of the Jamrat- the stone throwers would ‘know’ i always thought bad stuff about the Qu’ran, see me as a shaitan-and stone ME to death along with the Jamrat pillars. So I feigned illness and just lay curled up in the tent along with all the baggage.
    If ure Pakistani Muslim, u really got some issues with all this. And then Kafir Girl goes and spills a pork chop on it. See, once the fear goes, u are free.

    jasmine

    July 22, 2008 at 1:20 am

  6. I just wanted to say that I think you are AWESOME, this is the *funniest* blog I have read in ages, fracking fantastic!

    Deb

    July 22, 2008 at 2:52 am

  7. Hahaha that verse was a fucking perfect description of ALL religions, ever. “Don’t think about it, or you might lose faith”

    hahaha

    Scott

    July 22, 2008 at 3:09 am

  8. Gee, Kafira, what a great time I am having since finding you through Sean the Blogonaut (thanks, Sean!). I went trough all your posts yesterday and the day before, so I will just throw some comments not related to the current one and not in any particular order. Please bear with me, and forgive me if I do not write the actual nicks of the people whose comments I am replying to as I would have to go back and look for them, and I am about to have a meeting at work:

    – The girl who is a Harry Potter fan mentioned that she liked the idea of being in a paradise with good-looking serving guys. One question, though: do women get to go to that specific paradise too? Also, I read somewhere that not only there were 70+ beautiful ever-virgin maidens awaiting the deserving ones, but also a market where one could go, choose another beauty, and have fun right there and right then. Supposedly, just the same as fruits, honey, shadow and water, these promises were so compelling as to ensure enough adherents for the fight against the enemies of M (not to mention some present-day bombings).

    – I liked better your description of your paradise-on earth weekend (this doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t mind 70+ beautiful maidens in any real or imaginary paradise ;-)

    – One of the best responses and comments was given as a reply to the argument that Qu’ran’s beauty, holliness and logic is better understood when reading the original in Arabic: if it is a god-inspired message, why then it wasn’t written so that it can withstand translation? I would add that how on earth are those people who doesn’t know Arabic being expected to embrace a message that can only be understood by people within an specific language group? Now, let me expand this thought: if god really wanted to get the message across the whole world and avoid conflict and mis-translations, why not send prophets to each nation to spread the same single message and at the same single moment in time?

    – There is a fantasy book called the Crystal Throne in which a character mentions a law given by some prophet in a desert-like land stating that sheep should be given right of way when moving from one place to another, adding that probably the prophet had been a shepherder who was vexed every time he had to get his sheep out of the road to make way for other people. Reading you, I get that same accomodating feeling about many of the things found in te Qu’ran. And I understand that M would get angry whenever someone asked about these things. I heard that sometimes, however, he didn’t get angry, but resorted to his trump card (please correct me if I have the following wrong): when confronted about the fact that marrying a 6 year old girl was wrong, he just went away, consulted with god, and came back saying that he had said that it was ok.

    Well, I had some other comments, but this should suffice for now.

    C ya!
    Brg

    brg

    July 22, 2008 at 3:50 am

  9. “Coming up next: Jeebux. This time I mean it. No diversions. Stay tuned!”

    These links might be mighty helpful
    http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/BismiAllah/2a.htm

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

    Anand

    July 22, 2008 at 7:29 am

  10. Yvette, thank you! And thanks for reading.

    Johnny Cache, that sounds deelish! You’re right, I haven’t wandered outside of bacon or pork chops. I really should try something new. I almost got ribs over the weekend, but wasn’t really sure how to make them (no grill). Anyway, I’ll definitely give the pork cutlet in tonkatsu sauce a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

    Michelle, I’m really, really looking forward to those things getting shorter. I didn’t realize there was shit like that in the Quran though — instructions on how to treat the prophet, etc. Clever little shit, wasn’t he?

    Scott, I know, right?? How anyone could read that and still believe a word of this book is beyond my comprehension.

    Gregory, I think you’re right. I think I read it wrong last night. Thanks for pointing that out!

    It’s funny that you mention the proof of whether pagans were actually burying their daughters. I’ve never actually read anything about anyone uncovering an mass infant burial site in Saudi Arabia. Ever. I looked it up just now, and didn’t come up with one credible source on the first 2 Google pages — just Muslim / Islamic sources that talk about how it used to be done with no references or anything. I’ll search some more to see what’s out there, but you bring up an excellent point. What if it never fucking happened? What if Mohammed was telling a lie, a BIG lie, and it got repeated so much that people took it as a fact. (Kind of like the whole religion itself, but that’s a whole other thing.)

    And then there’s the question, were the pagans really worse to women than the Muslims were? I have no idea. It’s another thing I’ll have to look up, although these things might be tough to deduce since I’m not sure whether any written record survived Mohammed’s hostile takeover. I do know that the pagans worshiped goddesses. Not sure if that made any difference.

    apostatepakistanigirl, you’re right. It’s all fear and ritual, and the one thing that’s making that go away entirely is reading the book itself. Sad, right? In order to escape the religion once and for all, all I have to do is pay attention to it.

    Deb, thank you for the compliments, and thank you for reading! Glad you’re enjoying it so far.

    Anand, thanks for the links. I’ll check them out.

    kafirgirl

    July 22, 2008 at 8:11 am

  11. Hi brg! I’ll try to answer each one of your questions as best as I can. I’m no expert, but I make do with what i have!

    – I had to ask my mother about where all her descriptions of heaven came from. She was a little offended that I thought she might have been making them up, but she told me there are tons of hadith floating around about what happens once you get to heaven. I looked a couple up — there’s a lot of sex. A lot. I’ll do a post on it between chapters 5 and 6, because it’s totally worth discussing.

    – “Why not send prophets to each nation to spread the same single message and at the same single moment in time?” I’ve asked myself that throughout my life. I mean, what sense does it make to send all 3 religions to roughly the same area? Know what might have made me believe there was a God? If native Americans and native Australians had the same book and the same rituals despite being isolated. That might have made a good case for God.

    – I read somewhere on WikiIslam (not sure of the exact article), that his wives used to tease him for it. They supposedly joked that God would send down revelations that would fulfill only Mohammed’s current needs. I don’t know if I buy that story, because the man also said it was perfectly fine to beat a woman in certain situations. Who knows? Either way, hadith exist about it. As for marrying the 6 year old, he mentioned his desire to marry the girl to her parents. And they didn’t react well. So he told them that he’d had a dream where God gave the child, swaddled up in blankets, to him. So the parents agreed. If that’s not using the God trump card, I don’t know what is.

    Hope that helped!

    kafirgirl

    July 22, 2008 at 8:28 am

  12. So this chapter really should have been a disclaimer at the start of the book.

    Beware! knowledge and education will render this book useless and irrelevant (however the pages make good toilet paper).

    Sean the Blogonaut

    July 22, 2008 at 8:51 am

  13. ‘The one thing u have to do to escape it is pay attention to it’.
    Kafir Girl

    I think that’s totally bang on cos i remember actually trying to convince meself to be Muslima and reading the Qu’ran not in Arabi (which i can do-but just memorization), but in English (rather than Urdu) and thinking, just when i was feeling all cosy about me culture how off putting it is to read the narrow minded, petty and vindicative stuff inside, threats, taunts, blah blah blah and i literally threw it onto me bedroom wall and thought, “Stehpen King does horror better than this, this is just intimidation and it’s not working out.”
    Fine then, send me to hell cos the more u pay attention to every stupid minor detail, like the length of ure pubes and if swallowing ure own spit after wudu invalidates ure sawm the more self defeating this religion seems and so u just say, “Fuck it, I guess i must be an apostate then.”

    jasmine

    July 22, 2008 at 9:14 am

  14. @Kafirgirl
    Further questions are these:
    Man didnot know to speak from day one. He initially communicated with signs and gestures for a very long time before he himself developed languages. Then when man with his struggle developed languages (with all imperfections), God suddenly starts revealing in man-made imperfect languages!!!!!
    And what languages he chooses? Sanskrit. What percentage of people in the world knows Sanskrit? Arabic.Again what % of people in the world know Arabic? Hebrew.Again what % of people in the world know Hebrew?

    Why no revealations/books of God in English/Chinese?

    Again doesnt selecting Sanskrit/Hebrew/Arabic constitute patiality towards Jews/Hindus/Arabs?

    Again-see the sheer size of these books. Quran-6000-odd verses.Gita -700 verses. Vedas -22000-odd verses.Bible-any clue? Didnt God anticipate that today, huimans wouldnt have any time to read such huge books? Why he didnt reveal his words not exceeding 300 words?

    Anand

    July 22, 2008 at 9:45 am

  15. Anand, perhaps god realized this recently, and that’s why he decided to reveal the Mormon bible to John Smith ;-) Or to communicate with any of the multiple self-proclaimed prophets you see around here and there.

    I was just thinking: why does god need always a middle-man? Why does he always select one person to have private chats, discuss life and everything, heaven and hell, and to be his official spokesman? Why doesn’t he just have a meeting with everyone to convey his message? Aren’t we all the same before the eyes of god? And just stop right there; I can already hear some people saying: “but you need only to open your heart to him, and you will meet him and be able to chat with him”. No. I am talking about meeting him as Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, etc. did: flaming-bush, angel-messaging, face-to-divine presence talks. Other than that is just asking a lot of trust from us. And if the Egyptians were not impressed (in case there was really an Exodus), the Romans and Jews were not impressed (in case there was really a Jesus), and the unbeliever Arabs were not impressed, even when in presence of these spokesmen, why do believers get surprised when all we have are ancient books and stories (and the acts of those who swear by them)?

    brg

    July 22, 2008 at 1:16 pm

  16. I meant to say: why do believers get surprised of / angry at our doubts when all we have as proof are ancient books and stories (and the acts of those who swear by them)?

    brg

    July 22, 2008 at 1:19 pm

  17. Wow, what can I say that hasn’t been said before? Never have I read someone so in touch with their anger and yet so eloquently restrained (although a bit vulgar, tsk tsk….just joking). And, to put it in your style – So. Damn. Funny.

    Keep up the GREAT fucking job, and gotdamn I can’t wait to hear more. Although you may want to take a short break or your head might fucking explode all over your magic book, and that can’t be good. Might even get you to a 9 on the desecration scale.

    Bye for now

    – AQ

    An Qiang

    July 22, 2008 at 1:20 pm

  18. Brg, sure we’re all equal in the eyes of God. Some of us are just more equal than others. Know what I mean?

    AQ, thank you. But vulgur? Me? No fucking way. I think you’re right about taking sporadic breaks. My sanity is on the line, after all. After I’m done with the book, I’m taking a lonnnng vacation. I might even need to get to a 10 on the desecration scale just to vent my frustrations.

    kafirgirl

    July 22, 2008 at 4:24 pm

  19. This was by far the best and most entertaining way to spend my evening(I read all your posts today). Keep up the….wait no just stay sane, that would be awesome :P. I dont know any ex-muslims in my offline life….not a single one, which is probably why I loved this soo much. Also speaking of making my feel happy…is that smiley face at the bottom of the page supposed to be there?

    Abdullah

    July 22, 2008 at 11:25 pm

  20. Vulgar, huh.
    yes, we’re Pakistani girls and we’re top class, never vulgar, fuck……….. us, downclass, no way.
    One of them called u kafira, that’s good, it reminds me of Shaqira.

    jasmine

    July 23, 2008 at 3:45 am

  21. getting screwed while listening to nasheeds- THAT’S VULGAR

    jasmine

    July 23, 2008 at 3:46 am

  22. Abdullah, I don’t really know any ex-Muslims either. I know some Muslims who are more like deists, and they realize that the Quran is man-made, but they can’t let go of the Muslim title. But that’s about as close as I’ve gotten. Sucks, right? Who knows, maybe there are plenty of them out there, and they’re just too afraid to speak up. Would love for you to add the story of how you left Islam on the deconversion story page. You never know — it might help someone come out, and that’s a really great start to meeting more ex-Muslims.

    kafirgirl

    July 23, 2008 at 7:58 am

  23. Volume 1, Book 3, Number 92:
    Narrated Abu Musa:
    The Prophet was asked about things which he did not like, but when the questioners insisted, the Prophet got angry. He then said to the people, “Ask me anything you like.” A man asked, “Who is my father?” The Prophet replied, “Your father is Hudhafa.” Then another man got up and said, “Who is my father, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “Your father is Salim, Maula (the freed slave) of Shaiba.”

    This here, I guess we need to recognize what an astute military leader he was. Note that none of the men tell him that he has told names of their fathers wrong. It is as good as saying that he knew his men well. His military astuteness is visible through many other accounts. He knew his finances, he knew his tactics, he knew power centers and how to achieve/exploit them. Throughout the revelations, he has used these qualities in a cunning and confident manner.

    This of course doesn’t take away the burden of lumping mankind with a self contradictory preaching which is full of as many holes as there are hadiths or translations.

    KK

    August 16, 2008 at 6:56 am

  24. Hello KG,

    I’ve been reading your blog for the past couple of days and I absolutely LOVE IT! I mean it, I LOVE IT! Your wit and humour brings me to my knees every morning!

    With regards to the bit about whether it’s true that the Arabs bury their daughters and that women had no respect in society before Islam, I’d say it IS a smear campaign. Something that Mo said to make Islam look good.

    Firstly, if indeed such things occurred, it would have been recorded or spoken of. There were Jews and Christians among the “pagan” tribes and none of that baby burying bullshit was spoken of anywhere (that I know of) (damn the parentheses).

    Secondly, I think women held a higher position in pre-Islamic Arabic society, from the simple fact that Kadhijah, Mo’s first wife, was a successful merchant in her own right.

    This shows two things, 1) if daughters were so hated, Kadhijah wouldn’t have lived that long 2) women are respected members of society that they are allowed to work among men and men do not mind dealing business with them…unlike current day Muslim nations.

    Thirdly, no society will perform any needless killings on their offspring as this goes against the nature of propagation. Only, PERHAPS, if it’s a matter of survival…and even then, it’s done so with a very heavy heart.

    Just what I think…

    Keep it up…I’m looking forward to more posts from you!

    Yoke

    Yoke

    August 21, 2008 at 7:44 am

  25. When I took an Arab history class in college we learned that in pre-Islamic Arabia it was common practice for men to have many wives but also for women to have many husbands. Imagine how difficult it would be to keep all your relatives straight and not en up marrying one or several of your brothers. *yikes*. Maury Povich would have made a killing back then sorting out all the baby daddies.

    The burying of daughters was also mentioned. Wish I still had the book for this class for all I know they were using Islamic texts as reference so don’t quote me on any of this.

    Emmy

    September 4, 2008 at 3:57 pm

  26. Emmy, yup! I came across the women having many husbands thing a while ago. I guess the Quran quashed that little practice. As for burying of daughters, I haven’t found anything that proves this actually happened. It’s all Quran and hadith. I’m not buying it.

    kafirgirl

    September 4, 2008 at 4:00 pm

  27. I wish I could find it, but there’s at least one verse in the New Testament that proscribes asking questions which would be inconvenient to one’s faith. So it’s not just Mohammed who was advocating deliberate ignorance.

    Sanguinity

    November 18, 2008 at 9:38 pm


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