KafirGirl

We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

3: The Family of Imran (Part II — It’s Jeebux!)

with 41 comments

When I was in the 6th grade, a girl in my gym class asked me about my religion. Wait, I take that back. She didn’t ask about my religion. She assumed something about my religion, and wanted me to confirm it for her.

“You people believe in Jesus, too, only you think he’s dark like you, right?”

I shit you not.  That’s what this girl asked me.  And this wasn’t in the locker rooms after class or something — this was in the middle of class, in front of, like, everyone.  I died.  But God revived me, and after what felt like 28,349,032 seconds of silence, I quietly explained to  her that Muslims do believe that Jesus existed, but they don’t believe he was God’s son. He was just your average prophet, no better or worse than any of the others.  And, no, we did not believe that Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes, because that’s just fucking ig’nant.  There was some more silence, and then she went back to her group of friends to tell them about how the little heathen girl doesn’t think Jesus is white.

Little glimpse of my awkward youth, there.  Enjoy!

On to Jesus in the Quran.  Lets start with a little background:

33. God had chosen Adam and Noah and the families of Abraham and ‘Imran in preference to others.
34. They were descendants of one another; and God hears all and knows everything.
35. Remember, when the wife of ‘Imran prayed: “O Lord, I offer what I carry in my womb in dedication to Your service, accept it, for You hear all and know everything.”

“God hears all and knows everything.”  I’m not following the logic.  All of the prophets are related to each other.  God knows this because he knows everything, and also he heard it somewhere because his hearing is impeccable?  I know I’m being nit-picky, but this is driving me batshitass crazy:  in the context of this verse, who fucking cares if he hears everything?  Does it progress the story at all?  No.  So why have it in there?  Why, God, whhhhhhhy?!

The entire book is just peppered with the same few buzz words:  merciful, benevolent, all-knowing.  At one point, they even say “God is cognizant.”  Cognizant.  Seriously?  All this repetitive back-patting makes the book a total fucking snore.  I think if you take out all the verses where God is greasing up his own dick, the Quran would be less of a book and more of a booklet.  But I digress.

Did anyone catch Imran’s pregnant wife’s name in those verses?  No?  That’s because she doesn’t have one.  She’s not important enough to have one, because, whatever, she’s just a woman.  And guess what?  Her baby is also female.  Boooo! Hiss!!  Check out her awesome postpartum reaction:

36. And when she had given birth to the child, she said: “O Lord, I have delivered but a girl.”

“Aww shit, it’s only a girl.”  Bitch.

But God knew better what she had delivered: A boy could not be as that girl was. “I have named her Mary,” (she said), “and I give her into Your keeping. Preserve her and her children from Satan the ostracized.”

Lo, Mary is born!   Lets hope she’s not a big ol’ bitch like her mom who, for whatever reason, gives the girl to God.  And she makes it a point to remind God to keep the baby away from Satan.  The fuck?  He’s God!  He’s all-knowing and all-wise!  Or not.  Turns out God is a pretty forgetful guy after all, but that doesn’t come until later.

37. Her Lord accepted her graciously, and she grew up with excellence, and was given into the care of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah came to see her in the chamber, he found her provided with food, and he asked: “Where has this come from, O Mary?”
And she said: “From God who gives food in abundance to whomsoever He will.”

God is all about giving free food to people, isn’t he?  Remember how he gave the Jews lentils, onions, manna and herbs?  God doesn’t tell us what kind of food Mary got, probably because he didn’t want the Jews to get jealous and whiney again.

38. Then prayed Zachariah to his Lord: “O Lord, bestow on me offspring, virtuous and good, for You answer all prayers.”
39. Then the angels said to him as he stood in the chamber at prayer: “God sends you good tidings of John who will confirm a thing from God and be noble, continent, and a prophet, and one of those who are upright and do good.”
40. “How can I have a son, O Lord,” he said, “for I am old and my wife is barren?”

OK, what the hell, God?  How come the women are always barren but none of the men have low sperm counts?  And all the barren women are super desperate to have children yet none of them are willing to adopt?

“Thus,” came the answer, “God does as He wills.”
41. And Zachariah said: “Give me a token, O Lord.” “The token will be,” was the reply, “that you will speak to no man for three days except by signs; and remember your Lord much, and pray at evening and sunrise.”

Well, shit, it doesn’t take much, does it?  God must have been feeling especially benevolent on that day.  All Zachariah has to do is shut up for 3 days and pray 6 times, total.  Easy peasy.  As for me, I would have demanded a week’s worth of foot rubs, or at the very least, another perfect yellow cow.  Or, better yet, Zachariah could come and do laundry for me so I wouldn’t be sitting at the laundromat right now with 3 weeks worth of dirty clothes.  I’d give him a fucking baby for that.

But it looks like God has an ulterior motive. He’s lenient on Zachariah because God is waaaaay into Mary.  He sends down some angels to tell her how great and perfect and wonderful she is:

42. The angels said: “O Mary, indeed God has favoured you and made you immaculate, and chosen you from all the women of the world.

Cute, right?  And just when you think he’s going to ask her out for coffee or something:

45. When the angels said: “O Mary, God gives you news of a thing from Him, for rejoicing, (news of one) whose name will be Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in this world and the next, and one among the honoured,
46. Who will speak to the people when in the cradle and when in the prime of life, and will be among the upright and doers of good.”
47. She said: “How can I have a son, O Lord, when no man has touched me?”

Shazaam!  You’re pregnant!  No dinner and a movie or anything…

Note how both times it says that angels come to Mary.  Angels, plural.  And then check out the same story from Chapter 19:

19:16. Commemorate Mary in the Book. When she withdrew from her family to a place in the East
19:17. And took cover from them, We sent a spirit of Ours to her who appeared before her in the concrete form of a man.
19:18. “I seek refuge in the Merciful from you, if you fear Him,” she said.
19:19. He replied: “I am only a messenger from your Lord (sent) to bestow a good son on you.”
19:20. “How can I have a son,” she said, “when no man has touched me, nor am I sinful?”

Yup.  One angel.  And notice that she wasn’t tossed out by her mother to be taken care of by the invisible man in the sky — she withdrew from her family, which sounds totally voluntary.  A mistake?  In the infallible Quran?  No.  Way.

According to the Quran, God can just cancel out old verses whenever he feels like it.  Ye olde abrogation clause from chapter 2, remember?  So how in the fucking hell are you supposed to know which verse to keep and which one to cancel out?  And you certainly can’t believe only some parts of the book and ignore others — God’s rule, not mine — or else you’re going to hell where you will burn, baby, burn.  What’s a Muslim to do?  Answer:  close your eyes, plug your fingers in your ears, and say LALALALA!, or if you’re feeling especially feisty, threaten to kill anyone who points out the inconsistencies in all-knowing God’s infallible fucking word.

Moving right along.  God tells us what Jeebux, er, Jesus will be like when he grows up, only he tells us in Jesus’ own words.  Weird, right?  That’s the Quran for ya!

49. And he will be Apostle to the children of Israel, (saying) ‘I have come to you with a prodigy from your Lord that I will fashion the state of destiny out of mire for you, and breathe (a new spirit) into it, and (you) will rise by the will of God. I will heal the blind and the leper, and infuse life into the dead, by the leave of God. I will tell you what you devour and what you hoard in your homes. In this will be a portent for you if you do believe.

Holy hell.  Jesus is as arrogant as God is.  No wonder people think they’re related.

50. I (have come to) confirm the truth of the Torah which was sent down before me, and make certain things lawful which have been forbidden until now; and I come to you with a sign from your Lord; so be fearful of God and follow me.

Hang on a sec.  Jesus has come to confirm and revise the Torah.  Change around some laws, loosen the reigns a little, as per God’s direction, of course.  I don’t get it.  Why not just reveal the right laws the first time around?  Save everyone a lot of time and paperwork?  Cui bono?

51. Surely God is my Lord, and your Lord, so worship Him; and this is the right path.
52. When Jesus perceived their unbelief he asked: “Who will help me in the way of God?” “We,” the disciples answered, “shall be the helpers of God. We believe in God; and you be our witness that we submit and obey.
53. “O Lord, we believe in Your revelations and follow this Apostle. Enroll us among the witnesses.”

Wow.  That was easy.  Where’s the drama, the suspense?  I was expecting them to put up a fight for a little while, maybe draw it out a little longer, play hard to get, but no.  They go from “unbelief” to Jesus’ cheerleaders in all of 2 seconds.

54. But they (the unbelievers) contrived a plot, and God did the like; and God’s plan is the best.

Woah woah woooooah.  God hatches plans and schemes against people?  The fuck? I thought everything was preordained and predestined.  What happened to all this talk of kismet?  Not only is God trying to fuck up people’s plans, he’s absolutely giddy at how much better he is at plotting and scheming.  Even though he’s a fucking god and it should kinda go without saying that he’s better at everything.  Jesus H. Christ.  What will Mohammed think of next?

I had to skip ahead a little to find out.  Here’s what happens to Jesus in chapter 4:

4:155. So they do not believe but a few;
4:156. And because they denied and spoke dreadful calumnies of Mary;
4:157. And for saying: “We killed the Christ, Jesus, son of Mary, who was an apostle of God;” but they neither killed nor crucified him, though it so appeared to them. Those who disagree in the matter are only lost in doubt. They have no knowledge about it other than conjecture, for surely they did not kill him,
4:158. But God raised him up (in position) and closer to Himself; and God is all-mighty and all-wise.

Double you.  Tee.  Eff.  I keep saying you can’t make shit like this up, but obviously you can.

Jesus didn’t die on the cross, you fucking morons.  No no, he wasn’t even crucified.  There was a cross, yes, and someone was crucified on it, but it wasn’t Jesus.  It was someone else.  It was a Jesus doppelganger!  Ha!  The real Jesus is still alive — he’s hanging out with God.  They’re sitting up there in heaven, wearing fancy silk robes, sucking down fruit and wine, waiting for the Day of Judgement.  Don’t believe it?  You’re just lost in doubt.

You know who else is lost in doubt?  Anyone who believes in the Holy Trinity:

4:171. O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith, and say nothing but the truth about God. The Messiah who is Jesus, son of Mary, was only an apostle of God, and a command of His which He sent to Mary, as a mercy from Him. So believe in God and His apostles, and do not call Him ‘Trinity’. Abstain from this for your own good; for God is only one God, and far from His glory is it to beget a son. All that is in the heavens and the earth belongs to Him; and sufficient is God for all help.

O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith? How’s that for irony?  Take your own advice, Muslims.  By the way, Christians, it goes on to say that anyone who believes in the Trinity is going to hell.  Sucks, right?  Hey, at least you’ll be in good company.  You can go to hell for pretty much anything in Islam.

I guess God was pretty worried about the Christians making Jesus his son, because most of the other Jesus verses address that issue:

5:72. They are surely infidels who say: “God is the Christ, son of Mary.” But the Christ had only said: “O children of Israel, worship God who is my Lord and your Lord.” Whosoever associates a compeer with God, will have Paradise denied to him by God, and his abode shall be Hell; and the sinners will have none to help them.

5:75. The Christ, son of Mary, was but an apostle, and many apostles had (come and) gone before him; and his mother was a woman of truth. They both ate the (same) food (as men). Behold, how We show men clear signs, and behold, how they wander astray!

9:30. The Jews say: “Ezra is the son of God;” the Christians say: “Christ is the son of God.” That is what they say with their tongues following assertions made by unbelievers before them. May they be damned by God: How perverse are they!

19:35. It does not behove God to have a son. Too immaculate is He! When He decrees a thing He has only to say: “Be”, and it is.

and one more, straight from God’s Mohammed’s Jesus’s mouth:

5:116. And when God will ask: “O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to mankind: ‘Worship me and my mother as two deities apart from God?’ (Jesus) will answer: “Halleluja. Could I say what I knew I had no right (to say)? Had I said it You would surely have known, for You know what is in my heart though I know not what You have. You alone know the secrets unknown.
5:117. I said nought to them but what You commanded me: Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And so long as I dwelt with them I was witness over their actions. And after my life had been done, You were their keeper; and You are a witness over all things.
5:118. If You punish them, indeed they are Your creatures; if You pardon them, indeed You are mighty and wise.”

Shit, I don’t know, guys, it sounds a little scripted if you ask me.

Here’s the deal:  you have a group of people who already have a god.  They’re not in the market for a new religion, so how can you get them to drop that god for your god?  You don’t.  You tell them that their god is the same as your god, and you co-opt their traditions.  You steal their mythology and give it your own special twist.  You don’t sell them a whole new God — you just talk them into getting an upgrade.  It’s how the pagan Arabs did it for centuries before Islam was concocted.  And it’s how the Christians did it.  A few centuries later, Mohammed shows up, and does the same thing.

Mohammed needs Jesus to make him look legit.  But then there’s the whole issue of explaining the Trinity, which places Jesus at a higher level than Mohammed.  Son of God trumps prophet of God every time.  So Mohammed gets rid of the Trinity altogether in an attempt to equalize  all the prophets, and there you have it.

Islam — God version 3.0.

That’s all I have about Jesus, folks.

Coming up next:  chapter 4, The Women.  Ahhh shit.  Even the title is getting me pissy.  I’m pretty sure I’ll have plenty to say about that one.  Stay tuned!

OK, I know I just said that I was going to move on to chapter 4, but I paged through my Quran again and realized I’d totally forgotten about the war verses.  They were written sometime after the Battle of Badr and they’re pretty fucking intense.  Believe it or not (my money’s on “not”), angels fought in the battle.  It’s so fucking ridiculous that it’s worth examining.  I’ll save The Women for another post.

Coming up next:  The Battle of Badr, which, again, has absolutely nothing to do with The Family of Imran.  Who named this shit?

Written by kafirgirl

July 12, 2008 at 9:42 pm

Posted in Quran

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41 Responses

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  1. Just heard about your blog on The Non-Prophets and have read all your entries with delight. You’re to be commended for actually being able to plow through this book- I always figured I should have an idea of what’s in there and now I don’t actually have to do it myself. (I set out to read the whole Bible at some point but gave up somewhere in an early litany of wacky-but-true laws, I doubt I’d have any better luck with the Quran.)

    Steph

    July 13, 2008 at 1:01 am

  2. Hi Steph! I would still recommend reading it for yourself, because, who knows — maybe I’m wrong. But I can definitely understand not being able to bring yourself to open the fucking thing. It’s fucking horrendous. Yiish. Glad you’re enjoying the entries. Come back now, ya hear?

    kafirgirl

    July 13, 2008 at 2:39 am

  3. That came out rather more “oh goody, now me no has to think for myself” than I meant it — I really SHOULD be reading it for myself, or at least as much as I can handle without glazing over. I’ll try the Skeptic’s Annotated version for more readability.

    Steph

    July 13, 2008 at 4:58 am

  4. I’ve been reading since the first post – I believe I saw the link from Atheist Experience.

    Anyway, I find your writings absolutely fascinating. I’ve never taken the time to read the Quran (though I have, regrettably, read the bible cover to cover).

    Your writing style is awesome – entertaining and fun to read (unlike, by your description, the source material). There are a few lines in this particular post that almost caused me to spit my drink all over my desk, they were so funny :)

    Anyway, thanks for this informative (and highly entertaining) blog. :)

    Josh

    July 13, 2008 at 7:10 am

  5. Sorry, Kafirgirl. I do want to encourage you. However, am getting rather annoyed with all the mistakes and inconstancies your making.

    And the stupid humor and generally profanities you use. I mean, the idea of a commentary on some theological scripture is supposed to be ‘scholarly’ not all over the place. Your looking for contradictions were there are none, which is an absurd thing to do. Are you just trying to disparage the translation of the Quran? or trying to make some from of an intelligent argument against it? I would have been far more interesting in reading about your *actual* thoughts and asking questions as opposed pretending to be witty and an expert on the subject when clearly you are not. Just be yourself, we don’t want to be *impressed* by how you can ridicule every-single verse of the Quran. Try to be honest.

    Sammad

    July 13, 2008 at 2:07 pm

  6. And the Quran chapters are not named based on the sub text following it. And also, your are commenting on translations of the verses from the original classical Arabic. Hence why it sounds like its so odd, the original is a work of poetry which even till today has not been surpassed, think Shakespearian literature but in Arabic. Now the problem is, your using is translation, so the poetry is lost and the nonsensical text is left. Which does not do any justice to the original. And no am not defending the Quran. I’m being objective.

    Sammad

    July 13, 2008 at 2:16 pm

  7. “We read the Quran so you don’t have to.” so you cry when “god” does it, why are you doing it. Why are you asserting yourself as more then one person?

    Damn forget this nonsense, am going out to get a drink.

    Sammad

    July 13, 2008 at 2:31 pm

  8. First off, you’re trolling, and I have no problem with booting your ass outta here for it.

    “We read the Quran so you don’t have to” is a play on the old advertising slogan “We ________ so you don’t have to.” It was suggested by a reader, and it made me laugh. I guess that one went right over your head.

    Fuck the idea of what “commentary on some theological scripture is supposed to be.” I’ve never claimed to be an expert, or witty for that matter. I write the way I talk, and yes, that includes a lot of shit, fuck and ass. Get over it.
    And, for the record, I’m not trying to make any intelligent argument against ANYTHING. My M.O. is and will continue to be this: I’m reading the Quran in English for the first time ever, and this is my reaction to it.

    kafirgirl

    July 13, 2008 at 2:42 pm

  9. Hi Josh! I almost caused you to spit your drink all over your desk, huh? Damn. I’ll get you next time. Glad you’re entertained. Some would argue my writing style, with its stupid humor and general profanities, doesn’t fit the idea of a commentary on theological scripture. But if it makes you read and it makes you laugh? Success!

    kafirgirl

    July 13, 2008 at 3:04 pm

  10. Sammad:

    You contradicted yourself a few times. For a second there I was beginning to think you were Allah himself.

    First you say she should be ‘scholarly’, then later you tell her to just be herself and not try to impress anyone. Which begs the question, how would you know if she’s being herself or not?

    Second:

    “the original is a work of poetry which even till today has not been surpassed”

    followed by…

    “And no am not defending the Quran. I’m being objective.”

    How can you be objective when you already think it’s the best book ever written?

    Third, I just feel like nitpicking, basically because you asked for it.

    “we don’t want to be *impressed* by how you can ridicule every-single verse”

    followed by…

    “Why are you asserting yourself as more then one person?”

    Seems like you asserted yourself as more than one person up there. Or maybe you’re just trying to speak for everyone.

    Finally, I have to wonder why the all-knowing, infallible god would have his perfect word only be perfect in one language and sound like nonsense in another. He knows I don’t speak Arabic, does he not want me to go to heaven?

    xroblcx

    July 13, 2008 at 5:12 pm

  11. All religions are based on the writings of psychotic pedophiles although it is always amusing to see so many people kill each other because of suck writing.

    Keep it up!

    Fallout911

    July 13, 2008 at 6:03 pm

  12. *such

    (oops)

    Fallout911

    July 13, 2008 at 6:03 pm

  13. 36. And when she had given birth to the child, she said: “O Lord, I have delivered but a girl.”

    Is that how it appears in the translation, I could not find it. Either the not so immutable translations have been changed or you got that one wrong.

    I used this.. http://www.quranbrowser.com/

    Saakshi

    July 13, 2008 at 6:10 pm

  14. Saakshi, I am never wrong.

    Ha! I kid. I make funnies. As my husband puts it, I am an endless source of amusement…for myself.

    That exact quote that I used is from the Ahmed Ali translation. Here’s are 3 more translations:

    Pickthall:
    And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female

    A. J. Arberry:
    And when she gave birth to her she said, ‘Lord, I have given birth to her, a female.’

    George Sale:
    And when she was delivered of it, she said, Lord, verily I have brought forth a female

    Some are more biting than others, but again, I’m reading the Ahmed Ali translation. Not as much use of words like “thou” and “verily” in that one.

    P.S. I used the Online Quran Project website to get the various translations. It’s awesome because you can select several translations and compare them to one another. Shout out to SPH for hooking me up with that link. Check it out: http://quran-online.net/

    kafirgirl

    July 13, 2008 at 6:26 pm

  15. Love it. Please keep posting.

    Brigno

    July 13, 2008 at 6:43 pm

  16. I found a link to your blog over at the Atheist Experience site, and I have to tell you, you’re a hoot! I love your ‘stupid humor’ and ‘general profanities’. Ever seen Nick Gisburne’s ‘The Holy Fucking Bible?’ Riotous. Anyway, thanks for making me laugh, I’ll be reading, um, ‘religiously’, from now on. :D

    -Em

    Emily

    July 13, 2008 at 7:05 pm

  17. hey kafirgirl

    do you know the verse in qur’an that says “And We sent not (as Our Messengers) before you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) any but men, whom We inspired, (to preach and invite mankind to believe in the Oneness of Allâh). So ask (you, O pagans of Makkah) of those who know the Scripture (learned men of the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) if you know not” 16:43

    from this verse (and some others) Muslims over the ages concluded an important rule (ask those who know the scripture if you know not)

    If you can’t understand the qur’an and found it such a mockery you should’ve asked yourself a simple question … how could a book of this weakness attract around it millions of people over the ages?

    let’s say that (astaghfero Allah ) 90% of Muslims are ignorants and stupid .. how could the 10% of those who were born Muslims stay Muslims despite of the weakness of qur’an?

    it’s obvious >> qur’an is not that weak .. if you’re honest in your search for the true meanings and teachings of quran ,I recommend that you visit the nearest Islamic center in your area and bring your mind and heart along … try to meat someone and ask all the questions in your heart.

    btw .. regarding the fighting of angels along with muslims in badr .. it’s not only badr .. in almost every single battle during almadina era of prophet muhammad’s(peace be upon him) life the ratio of muslim fighters to kafir fighter’s is below 1:2 … in badr it was near 1:3 and in that time the archery and knights where rare within muslims and available to kafirs >> it was certain defeat for muslim army if you know power and war rules of the era

    may be I’ll see you (you page of course ) later sometime

    Muslim

    July 13, 2008 at 11:32 pm

  18. My mistake, the Ahmed Ali translation is not in that site which i was seeing, thanks for the other link..

    Saakshi

    July 14, 2008 at 9:57 am

  19. To #17 Muslim:

    Do you like brackets A LOT, didn’t you?

    Enrico

    July 14, 2008 at 2:12 pm

  20. Enrico, know what I like a lot? M dashes. Those — things. And also :
    I could — and : the fuck out of a paragraph.

    Hi Emily! I owe those Atheist Experience guys a whole lotta frosty beers when I’m in Austin. They’re sending all kinds of lovely people this way. Never heard of ‘The Holy Fucking Bible’ but the title gave me the giggles, so I’ll have to check it out fo’ sho’. Thanks for the recommendation.

    No problem, Saakshi. I know it’s hella confusing with so many translations out there. But I’m not learning Arabic just because God preferred it, know what I mean?

    kafirgirl

    July 14, 2008 at 2:35 pm

  21. Sammad says: “I mean, the idea of a commentary on some theological scripture is supposed to be ’scholarly’ not all over the place.”

    And in doing so, offers up yet another example of what PZ Myers described as “the courtier’s reply” to Richard Dawkins.

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/12/the_courtiers_reply.php

    Which, in a nutshell is: “How DARE you say that the Emperor has no clothes, little girl? Haven’t you read all the scholarly literature that is available on the marvelous nature of the Emperor’s clothes?”

    All the ink in the world could be spilled on how brilliant and intricate is the Koran… and it still wouldn’t cause it to make any sense.

    Kazim

    July 14, 2008 at 3:29 pm

  22. to #19 Enrico

    say something useful or say nothing

    by the way, it’s a prophet muhammad teaching.

    so I’ll just wait for a reasonable reply to my prior comment.

    Muslim

    July 14, 2008 at 4:12 pm

  23. Muslim, you said:

    If you can’t understand the qur’an and found it such a mockery you should’ve asked yourself a simple question … how could a book of this weakness attract around it millions of people over the ages?

    You’re saying the Quran is not weak because Muslims believe in it, and there are so many Muslims that they can’t be wrong. By that logic, I should be Christian. There are way more Christians in this world than there are Muslims, therefor their book must be superior to your book. I mean, if THAT many people believe in it, how can they be wrong? That is what you’re saying, isn’t it?

    Here’s something I’m willing to bet you’ve never considered: religion is geographic. If you were born if Oklahoma, chances are, you’d be Southern Baptist, or whatever the dominant religion is in Oklahoma. You are Muslim because your parents were Muslim. You were indoctrinated into your religion as a child, before you have the skills to reason and think for yourself. That’s why you believe what you believe just as hard as a Catholic believes what he believes and a Southern Baptist believes what she believes.

    Your argument, in my opinion, holds no water. At all.

    kafirgirl

    July 14, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  24. I would also tender that quite a few are Muslim because they have not read nor tried to understand the Koran for themselves – instead leaving it to Imams and scholars to filter that information.

    This still continues today in the Christian denominations – I did not seriously read the bible until I was an atheist.

    Sean the Blogonaut

    July 15, 2008 at 7:15 am

  25. Sean, exactly. Most Muslims learn to read the Quran in Arabic phonetically, so they have no idea what’s in there. That’s another reason why comment #17 makes no sense to me. If I really want to open up my heart and be honest with myself and know what’s in the Quran, I have to go ask some cleric? So he can tell me whatever his interpretation of Islam is? Screw that.

    kafirgirl

    July 15, 2008 at 12:01 pm

  26. It is obvious that this KAFIRGIRL has serious issues.
    Her vocabulary is limited to a few abusive words. I don’t really know which religion she follows, but God help her.

    KAFIRGIRL, you should check the correct transliteration. The words are:

    3:36
    “O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!”- and Allah knew best what she brought forth-

    There are 3 different transliteration there, and none of them is close to your own findings.

    Reference:

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html

    The adjoining verses have nothing but praises for this wonderful woman who was chosen above other women.

    3:42
    Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

    I wonder why someone would go through a book that they don’t even like. And then spend a lot of time talking about it.
    Seems to me you have other motives my friend.

    I have nothing else to say to someone with your mindframe.

    Man

    July 16, 2008 at 3:02 am

  27. Man, see comment #14. Then see Deconversion Story to see what my “issues” are (hint: it’s Islam!). And also check out the FAQ for reasons why I’m dong this, the translation of the Quran I’m using and why I’m using it, etc. Know what you’re attacking before you start spewing forth all kinds of shit and wild accusations.

    kafirgirl

    July 16, 2008 at 11:43 am

  28. Kafir Girl: “Shazaam! You’re pregnant! No dinner and a movie or anything…”

    It usually bugs me when people say “lol” ’cause I’m pretty sure nobody actually laughs out loud but I have to admit it, I literally lol’ed with that line. Well, done, Ma’am, well played.

    I wonder how it could’ve happened… [harp glissando]

    Allah: Ma-reee! What up, girl. I ain’t seen you since you was a 9-year-old kid. But you isn’t a kid no more, hell, naw. Mmh! you a full-grown woman now and y’all be lookin’ all fine tonight. Them 4 years went by real fast, right?.

    Mary: Thank you, Lord. *Tee-hee*

    Allah: Hey, baby girl, look over there!

    Mary: Where? *turns head*

    [Angelic chorus sings; a light comes down from the sky and illuminates Mary below the waist for a second and a half, then fades]

    Allah: Rejoice! for you are now with child.

    Mary: Wha…? well, THAT was fast.

    Allah: Say what now? What’s that supposed to mean?

    Mary: Um, no-nothing, that was great, Lord. I hear it happens to everyone, no big deal. Don’t worry, we can always go again, right, baby?

    Allah: uh… Yeeeeeeah, see… girl, I got like a battle of Badr next chapter and I’m kinda tired so, I’m just gonna take off but I’ll totally call you, babe.

    [harp glissando]

    Nah. I guess we’ll never know. :P

    Adrael

    July 20, 2008 at 5:06 am

  29. kaafirgirl:
    Ok so which is the correct religion ? According to you ofcourse :)

    Adrael:
    Your Lord, and my Lord… are One.
    My Lord is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth.
    I guess you worship the same one ?

    So if I call Him Allah, and you call Him God,
    does that mean you can make fun of your own God ?
    Or beliefs of others.?
    What religion do you follow ?

    Or are you all atheists here ?
    Because then this conversation isnt really go anywhere.
    Because:

    “I worship not that which you worship
    Nor will you worship that which i worship
    and I shall not worship that which you are worshiping
    Nor will you worship that which I worship
    To you be your religion, and to me my religion”

    Man

    July 20, 2008 at 3:34 pm

  30. Man, I do not believe any religion is the “correct” one. In my opinion, all of the religions are equally absurd. I am an atheist. And I would say most of the people reading there are atheist or agnostic, but I don’t want to speak for them.

    kafirgirl

    July 20, 2008 at 3:41 pm

  31. I seriously don’t know what you’re talking about, Man. When did I say anything about having a Lawd or a religion. Your comment feels a bit like a non sequitur since it has nothing to do with anything I said but ok. :P

    Here are my answers in order:

    – I do not worship any Sky Faeries nor can it really be said that I worship anyone or anything. It’ just not a part of my nature. I can worship as much as I can menstruate, =D

    – Call it whatever you want, if it’s a god, I’ll probably mock it.

    – I’ll mock the beliefs of others too, if they happen to be harmful, bigoted or just plain nonsensical.

    – I don’t practise any religion.

    – The short answer is yes, I am an atheist. Now, if you want to get more specific, depending on the situation you could say I’m:

    *An Agnostic Atheist – “I don’t claim to know for certain but I won’t believe until there’s evidence and a good reason to do so.”

    *An “Assertive Atheist” – “Based on our current understanding of the world, I BELIEVE there are no gods.”

    *A Relative Gnostic Atheist – “I KNOW there are no gods, but in the same way I KNOW there are no purple horses.”

    And I guess the labels Scientific Naturalist, Philosophical Materialist, Sceptic, Freethinker and Secular Humanist also apply.

    Damn, why can’t I ever make a short post, it’s like a disease.

    Adrael

    July 20, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  32. I wasn’t going to comment further, but I can’t help myself.

    “I worship not that which you worship
    Nor will you worship that which i worship
    and I shall not worship that which you are worshiping
    Nor will you worship that which I worship
    To you be your religion, and to me my religion”

    Chapter 109 in the Quran; I looked it up. A little repetitive, but OK, I get it. To each his own (religion). But where do atheists fit in, exactly, considering we don’t worship anyone or anything? Or is this just a truce between Muslims, Jews and Christians, and the atheists aren’t invited?

    Yeah, I’m pretty sure this conversation is going nowhere.

    kafirgirl

    July 20, 2008 at 5:48 pm

  33. The Virgin Birth theory and its origin is worth looking at as Allah has copied it from christianity. It originated fropm mistranslation of Hebrew Bible.

    The most colossal blunder of the Septuagint translators, the mistranslation of the original Hebrew text of Isaiah, 7.14, allowed deceitful early Christians to concoct their infamous prophecy that somehow the ancient Jewish text presaged the miraculous birth of their own godman.

    The Hebrew original says:
    ‘Hinneh ha-almah harah ve-yeldeth ben ve-karath shem-o immanuel.’
    Honestly translated, the verse reads:
    ‘Behold, the young woman has conceived — and bears a son and calls his name Immanuel.’
    The Greek-speaking translators of Hebrew scripture (in 3rd century B.C. Alexandria) slipped up and translated ‘almah’ (young woman) into the Greek ‘parthenos’ (virgin). The Hebrew word for virgin would have been ‘betulah.’

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm#virgin

    Anand

    July 22, 2008 at 4:54 am

  34. http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

    As this is the case, falsity of Islam and Christianity is proved.

    Anand

    July 22, 2008 at 4:56 am

  35. “and to me my religion”
    So, a candid admission from Allah that Islam is “my religion” meaning Muhammad’s religion and poor Allah had nothing to do with it.

    See also verse 17:93 where pagans challenge Muhammad to send down a BOOK from heaven for them to read.
    “Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read.”

    Allah’s response is:
    Say: “Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- an apostle?”

    CLEAR AGAIN THAT ALLAH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM.IT IS MUHAMMAD’S RELIGION AND QURAN IS MUHAMMAD’S BOOK.
    Sura 109 and verse 17:93 damage Islam more than all that apostates of Islam/atheists/non-muslims say.

    nOTICE THE things taht occur after “Say” in Sura 109 and ayat 17:93. These things are commonsense things which any reasonably intelligent individual can say and require no “divine guidance”. Whatever Muhammad said has been incorporated in Quran with “Say(Qul)” at the start of the ayat. The compilers of Quran goofed uo by not inserting “Qul” at some places sucvh as Sura Fatiha, verses 6.104/6.114/11.2/27.91/51.50/51.51 and inserting Qul at wring places such as verses 39.10/39.53

    Anand

    July 22, 2008 at 5:06 am

  36. The view of Jesus “not dying on the cross” is not unique to Islam. The position of Islam is remarkably similar to the Gnosticteaching of Basilides, a first century Gnostic, who taught Jesus was not crucified because Jesus changed forms to look like Simon of Cyrene, and Simon was made to look like Jesus. Jesus then watched the crucifixion and laughed, returning to Heaven. Islam believes Jesus did not die on the cross, but only appeared to die, Jesus was taken up into heaven, like the Jesus Basilides presented.

    The Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all….. If any one, therefore, he declares, confesses the crucified, that man is still a slave, and under the power of those who formed our bodies; but he who denies him has been freed from these beings, and is acquainted with the dispensation of the unborn father.Basilides

    http://www.investigateislam.com/english/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=57

    Anand

    July 22, 2008 at 8:20 am

  37. “003.059
    YUSUFALI: The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was.
    PICKTHAL: Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
    SHAKIR: Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was. ”

    How does this fit in with:”Jesus, son of Mary”? How does this fit in with “19:20. “How can I have a son,” she said, “when no man has touched me, nor am I sinful?””

    If Jesus was born of Mary, then he would have an umbilical cord. If he was created in the likeness of Adam, Adam also will have an umbilical cord????

    Anand

    July 23, 2008 at 2:10 pm

  38. Since some verses from Chapter 19 are posted here, it would be instructive to look at this gem from that Chapter:
    “[019:026] “….. And if thou dost see any man, SAY, ‘I have vowed a fast to (God) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into NOT TALK with any human being'””

    [019:026] “….. Should any one happen to pass by, tell him you are observing a fast for the sake of Rehman, (the Merciful), and hence shall not talk to anyone.”

    TELL EVERY PASSERBY THAT “I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK”.

    Anand

    July 28, 2008 at 6:28 am

  39. # What’s a Muslim to do? Answer: close your eyes, plug your
    # fingers in your ears, and say LALALALA!

    You didn’t listen closely. It goes “la ilah illa allah”, not “lalalala”.

    kereng

    August 4, 2008 at 3:27 pm

  40. “At the age of 25, Mohammed marries a 40 year old wealthy, widow named Khadijah who owns trading caravans. During the next 15 years of his life he interactes with Arabs known as the Hanefites. Hanefites were Arabs who rejected idol worship and were searching for the true religion. They looked to the religion of the Jews and Christians as being close to the goal. The Hanefites abandonded their idols and would retreat to the caves of Mecca in meditation and prayer. ”

    “At age 40 Mohammed had his first vision in the year 610 AD. He was in a cave on Mt. Hera and thought he was demon possessed. He went to Khadijah and told her about the event. She consulted with her uncle Waraca, a Hanefite who converted to Christianity, who assured them Mohammed vision was from God.”

    These are indicators that Mo the man heard a lot about jesus the man from converts. He was a smart military leader ready to “Gold Star to Followers”. Only if Waraca has taken Mo under his tutelage, perhaps world would have been saved the contradiction named Quran.

    KK

    August 14, 2008 at 1:53 am

  41. [...] before.  For example, this same exact scenario happened to Zachariah’s nameless wife back in chapter 3.  What [...]


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