KafirGirl

We read the Quran so you don’t have to.

1: The Opening

with 45 comments

I cracked open my Quran over the weekend and read the first chapter in all of 10 seconds.  I am a speed reading genius! OK, not really. The Opening is only 7 lines long, and it’s forever burned into my brain thanks to the rote learning techniques used at my Islamic Sunday school.

Ahhh, memories.  We’d sit there hunched over our Qurans, repeating the same line over and over again until it was committed to memory.  In Arabic. None of us actually understood what we were reading, we just memorized it. I spent a lot of that time daydreaming about boys and about getting my very first period so I could skip out on the afternoon prayer on account of my “uncleanliness.”  Typical 12 year old stuff, right? Right?? I digress.

The Quran is supposed to be the flawless, infallible “word of God,” which means God speaks directly to Mohammed and the Muslims throughout the book. I guess I expected him to say “I” and “me” or maybe even the royal “we” or “us.” But no. God refers to himself in third person. And if that isn’t weird enough, this surah is a prayer to God…written by God. The fuck?

In the name of Allah, most benevolent, ever-merciful.

All of the surahs start out with this, and even though I’ve said it a gazillion times before, I’ve never given it much thought. God starts each chapter by declaring it in his name, and as if that isn’t enough, he reminds us that he is incredibly generous and merciful. Pretentious much? Or maybe, just maybe, this was a later addition, and the book is not the infallible word of God it claims to be.

1. ALL PRAISE BE to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,

Seriously, I can’t get over it. The whole 3rd person perspective is throwing me off. Shouldn’t it be, “All praise be to me, Lord of all the worlds”?

I had to look this up, and according to my research, this is a serious problem throughout the book. It’ll switch from God speaking to Mohammed speaking. Someone along the way figured out a clever way to get around this by adding the command “Say:” to the beginning of those passages. They don’t make sense as they are written, so adding “Say:” to the beginning makes it seem like God is telling you to declare something. Most likely something about how merciful or benevolent he is.

2. Most beneficent, ever-merciful,

Again with the merciful. Spoiler alert!  I skipped ahead a little, scanned through some passages, and there’s some stuff in the Quran that’s anything but merciful. One word: Lot. …and his daughters. OK fine, four words. Sue me.

3. King of the Day of Judgement.

Our very first reference to the end of the world. On the Day of Judgement, according to what I learned in Sunday school, the earth will open up and all the bodies will come climbing out of their graves to answer to God. I assumed all this time that this zombie Judgement was invented on the spot by my teacher, but I’ve found the same stories online, too. This has never made sense to me. What happens to bodies that aren’t in graves? If you’re cremated or buried at sea, do you get a free pass?  Will there be no Hindus or pirates in the next life?

4. You alone we worship, and to You alone turn for help.
5. Guide us (O Lord) to the path that is straight,

What’s with the (O Lord) parentheses? They don’t have them in the Arabic text, as far as I can tell.

I looked through the book and there are a lot of things that Ahmed Ali puts into parentheses — things I can’t find in the other translations I consulted online. I even ran across one line where Ahmed Ali adds a (God) with a footnote saying something like, “Clearly this section is talking about God, not Mohammed.” But without this parenthetical (God), it wouldn’t be clear at all. Methinks Mr. Ali doth protest too much. Mealsothinks the Arabic text must not be the perfect and infallible text it claims to be since one has to infer so much. More on that later. Moving along.

6. The path of those You have blessed,

Hint hint: he’s talking about Muslims.

7. Not of those who have earned Your anger, nor those who have gone astray.

Whoo boy, Jew bashing, right off the bat. According to my research and the neat little footnote at the bottom of the page, “Those who have earned (God’s) anger” refers to Jews. I vaguely remember learning that in Islamic Sunday school, but I can’t remember the reason why God is angry at the Jews.

“Those who have gone astray” refers to Christians. They’re not as bad as the Jews; they’re just lost.  I guess that explains why they’re always looking for Jesus. (He’s over here, Christians. You can stop looking.)

That’s it.  That’s the first chapter.  Not much to it.

Here’s what I got out of The Opening: God is great, loves Muslims, hates Jews, and is neutral on Christians.

I was feeling ambitious, so I read on to chapter 2, The Cow. Big mistake. It turns out that The Cow is the longest chapter in the Quran. I hope it’s also the most boring chapter in the Quran because, holy hell, it dragged on and on and on. And it’s chock fucking full of God is most mercifuls and God is most benevolents and God is most blah blah blah. I was thisclose to gouging my eyes out by the end. That’s coming up next. Stay tuned!

Written by kafirgirl

July 8, 2008 at 7:11 pm

Posted in Quran

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45 Responses

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  1. Welcome to WordPress! I am most interested in Chapter 2.
    :)

    Bug Girl

    July 8, 2008 at 9:32 pm

  2. Hi Kafir Girl,

    Thanks for letting me know about your blog! (This is Russell of the Non-Prophets.) I’ve never read the Koran before, so I’ll be interested to hear your impressions of it.

    Kazim

    July 8, 2008 at 10:48 pm

  3. Hey Russell, hey Bug Girl, thank you for reading.

    Bug Girl, chapter 2 is an, um, interesting read so far. There’s anger, there’s drama, there’s a dead guy beaten with the flesh of a dead cow. I’m compiling my notes and figuring out some way to tackle this beast. Should have something up later today.

    kafirgirl

    July 9, 2008 at 1:42 pm

  4. What a great idea! Thanks Kafir Girl!

    I’ll be adding links as you go along from the bottom of each chapter at the Skeptic’s Annotated Quran.

    Steve Wells

    July 10, 2008 at 5:35 am

  5. Steve, thank you so much. Your site has taught me so much and made me laugh so hard I cried. Thank you for that, too!

    kafirgirl

    July 10, 2008 at 12:06 pm

  6. Welcome to the tubes!

    Nandes

    July 10, 2008 at 12:46 pm

  7. Ok, the bit about the lack of hindus and pirates in the afterlife made my day. I had never thought of that one before.

    Robin

    July 10, 2008 at 5:36 pm

  8. Oh dear me… You’ve made a pretty big error here. I mean, this is the fundamentals. God does not talk to Mohamed (or did talk to him) directly. In fact, as I understand it is only ONCE god (ALLAH) talks to Mohammad directly. And that is during the “Isra and Mi’raj” when Mohammad does celestial traveling. All the other times ALLAH speaks to Mohammad indirectly via the archangel Gabriel.

    You might want to fix that mistake.

    Sammad

    July 13, 2008 at 1:48 pm

  9. I’ll give you the exact explanation I was given in Islamic Sunday school: if someone calls you on the telephone, you do not say “the telephone is talking to me.” You say, “Bob is talking to me.” That’s how they explained Gabriel to me. A mouthpiece. With God talking directly through him.

    Perhaps “directly” was not the best choice of words, but that doesn’t change my opinion that this is some seriously fucking confusing shit, and I have no idea who is supposed to narrate this book to me. In fact, it muddles it up even more by adding a third agent.

    kafirgirl

    July 13, 2008 at 2:54 pm

  10. Just started reading your Fundamentally funny blog kafirgirl and am glued to it!

    Takes me ‘fondly’ back to my childhood on the other side of the Atlantic, bobbing my head up & down, reciting these surah’s to memory & oh so trying not to let iblis entice me into his fiery lair.

    On the plus side, I’m sure I felt quite intellectual at the time, being able to reel off chunks of the holy book from memory in ancient arabic. Mind you, i didnt understand a word of it & was only 7.

    defunct pilgrim

    July 19, 2008 at 2:13 pm

  11. Hiya Pilgrim! Another ex-Muslim, huh? I would love to hear your deconversion story, if you’re feeling up to sharing it. It’s pretty amazing that so many former Muslims have found their way to this site. It gives me fuzzies in the tummy.

    kafirgirl

    July 19, 2008 at 5:37 pm

  12. Nice analysis Kafirgirl. One more question I have. Right through the Quran,there are ayats saying that Islam is the straight path.
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search.cgi?search_text=straight+path&search_type=Exact+String&B1=Search

    If Islam is the straight path and Quran contains the whole of Islam, why muslims say the Surah Fatiha prayer “Guide us (O Lord) to the path that is straight,”? Do they admit that Islam is not the straight path? Or do they accept that Quran is incomplete.

    There is another point. There is an Islamic tradition attributed to Abdullah Ibn Masuud ( a companion of Muhammad) that Surahs 1, 113 and 114 are not part of Quran and whosoever asserts that they are parts of Quran are “infidels”. U cud perhaps throw more light on these. Incidentally, Muhammad said that Abdullah Ibn Masuud was one of the 4 authorities from whom Quran should be learnt. But Caliph Uthman sidelined Ibn Masud and entrusted compilation ogf Quran to one Zaid.

    Anand

    July 21, 2008 at 2:54 am

  13. “I guess I expected him to say “I” and “me” or maybe even the royal “we” or “us.””

    The “royal plural ” “we” doesnt solve Allah’s problems here:
    verse 19:64
    “We come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto Him belongeth all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between those two, and thy Lord was never forgetful”
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/quran/quran_search1.cgi?search_text=19%3A60-64&B1=Search
    Notice how translators try to help out Allah by adding brackets in this verse.

    Anand

    July 21, 2008 at 5:38 am

  14. @Sammad
    Here is ur Miraj story.
    “Then Allah revealed to me a revelation and He made obligatory for me fifty prayers every day and night. Then I went down to Moses (peace be upon him) and he said: What has your Lord enjoined upon your Ummah? I said: Fifty prayers. He said: Return to thy Lord and beg for reduction (in the number of prayers), for your community shallnot be able to bear this burden. as I have put to test the children of Isra’il and tried them (and found them too weak to bear such a heavy burden). He (the Holy Prophet) said: I went back to my Lord and said: My Lord, make things lighter for my Ummah. (The Lord) reduced five prayers for me. I went down to Moses and said. (The Lord) reduced five (prayers) for me, He said: Verily thy Ummah shall not be able to bear this burden; return to thy Lord and ask Him to make things lighter. I then kept going back and forth between my Lord Blessed and Exalted and Moses, till He said: There are five prayers every day and night. O Muhammad, each being credited as ten, so that makes fifty prayers. He who intends to do a good deed and does not do it will have a good deed recorded for him; and if he does it, it will be recorded for him as ten; whereas he who intends to do an evil deed and does not do, it will not be recorded for him; and if he does it, only one evil deed will be recorded. I then came down and when I came to Moses and informed him, he said: Go back to thy Lord and ask Him to make things lighter. Upon this the Messenger of Allah remarked: I returned to my Lord until I felt ashamed before Him.”
    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/001.smt.html

    Moses is smarter than ur Allah. That is why Jews have won far more science NOBEL PRIZES than Muslims who are several times the number of Jews. Muslims have won just one science Nobel-Ahmed Zewail-and he doesnt proclaim/imtroduce himself as a muslim. U consider Dr,Abdus Salam, an Ahmediya as an apostate /

    Anand

    July 21, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  15. I tried reading the “basic” translation of the quran once, but after reading half way through the 2nd chapter I realised how weird and annoying it was, it barely made any sense and like you said, Allah just kept “bigging” himself up! That was when I was a lil agnostic, think after reading that made me fully leave Islam. Reading your other stuff on the quran though, only because I don’t want to go through the quran agaon..:P

    Humra

    July 24, 2008 at 5:47 pm

  16. Can’t wait to read the rest. Plus are there any ex-muslims here in the UK, sorry for asking, just want to make sure I’m not alone..:P

    Humra

    July 24, 2008 at 5:49 pm

  17. Humra, welcome and thanks for reading! Would love to get your story — if you’re in a sharing mood, feel free to post it in the deconversion story section. apostatepakistanigirl is in the UK, I believe. And someone else, but I can’t remember for the life of me, who it is.

    kafirgirl

    July 24, 2008 at 6:23 pm

  18. I think it would be better if you right ‘Allah’ instead of ‘God’

    pagan

    August 3, 2008 at 9:41 am

  19. Again, Pagan, why? Why do you think it would be better?

    kafirgirl

    August 3, 2008 at 10:02 am

  20. Dear Kafirgirl,
    Because when you use ‘god’ for things that are associated only with ‘Allah’ I don’t feel at home. Many Infidels simply don’t see Allah as god. This is my feelings from a readers point of view. You can enquire whether other readers feel the same. I genuinely feel that Allah should be used instead of god or at least the frequency of ‘Allah’ should be increased.

    pagan

    August 5, 2008 at 8:39 am

  21. Pagan, I genuinely disagree. You should be aware that you’re reading an atheist’s blog. And I don’t pander to any religion. I don’t tip toe around people’s religious beliefs. If that makes you squeamish, please stop reading.

    If you came here looking for a way to justify how your God is better than their God, sorry, I don’t do that. The Christian God, the Jewish God, and Allah are one and the same. And he’s a fairy tale.

    Whether or not other readers feel the same as you is honestly of no consequence to me. I’m doing this project for me. That other people are finding enjoyment in it is a fantastic added bonus. They don’t agree with everything I say, and I don’t expect them to.

    Get over it.

    kafirgirl

    August 5, 2008 at 8:49 am

  22. Well Said.

    Great blog by the way. I just heard about it on the Non-Prophets podcast (I know. I’m an episode behind.)

    You are doing what I’ve always wanted to do, but didn’t have the motivation. Good luck making it through that big mess of nonsense. Your commentary is very entertaining.

    I’ll add a link to your blog, so all of the people that come to my site (like 10 at most) can hop over here.

    Dave

    August 5, 2008 at 10:34 am

  23. Your blog started up while I was out of town and hadn’t much time to start any new blogs, but I was subscribed to it from the start and had it sitting in my feed reader.

    This was great. I have a bunch of religious texts to read through and was starting with the Bible. I think, though, I’ll put that on hold and read the Qur’an along with you. Your commentary will prove to be most humorous and cathartic :-)

    DisComforting Ignorance

    August 5, 2008 at 1:55 pm

  24. Just a quick questions, why are the Jews so bad- I mean poor guys
    they also have he only place in the Middle East without oil, why is everyone anti- them?
    Is it revealed later?

    Allytude

    August 15, 2008 at 7:54 pm

  25. Hi Allytude! It all comes down to Mohammed’s Jewish neighbors. The simple answer, I guess, is that they weren’t buying into his bullshit. They wouldn’t upgrade to his religion, and it pissed him the fuck off. I made a post about the Jews in chapter 5. You should check it out if you get a chance: http://kafirgirl.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/chapter5part1/

    kafirgirl

    August 16, 2008 at 12:39 am

  26. My guess would be that God is angry at the Jews because they deny the prophet has yet come, and in Islam God’s prophet is Muhammad. Don’t take my word for it, though; this is just what I’ve heard. I look forward to reading your blog. =3

    merixthexninja

    August 17, 2008 at 7:13 pm

  27. Hi Kafir Girl,

    When you mention about zombies, you make me smile. It proves to us that, we are mundane. The whole knowledge in the world if we can compared it with the knowledge of Allah, is like a dot of liquid in an open ocean. There is no such thing as zombies crawling up from their graves. No matter whether you are buried, burned or cremated you will still wake up when you heard the third sound during the end of the world. There is no longer earth.. Earth have been wiped out.

    Al-Fatiha is the opening surah. In this surah, it just like a preface for the whole quran. It contain praising to Allah and prayer for Allah’s mercy. So, you are expecting in the Quran, there will be lot of praising to God, about day of judgment and being thankful servant.

    Nissa

    October 1, 2008 at 5:30 pm

  28. The whole knowledge in the world if we can compared it with the knowledge of Allah, is like a dot of liquid in an open ocean.

    You do realize that Allah is an idiot, right?

    He thinks the Earth is flat, that the Sun revolves around the Earth, that mountains prevent earthquakes, that stars are “hung” from the Earth’s roof, pedophilia and sex slaves and wife beating is cool, babies are formed by blood clots (among other things), and women should suffer Vitamin D deficiency by not getting sunlight on their skin. (Allah is a misogynist, too, you know.) There are many other things he is an idiot about, but I don’t have all evening to type.

    Al-Fatiha is the opening surah. In this surah, it just like a preface for the whole quran. It contain praising to Allah and prayer for Allah’s mercy.

    It is only 6-7 lines long and also contains hate-speech towards Jews and Christians. Oh wait, you are right! It is a preface to the whole Quran!

    Peace.

    Michael

    October 1, 2008 at 9:18 pm

  29. Micheal,

    In the metaphor, Allah’s knowledge is the ocean. Not knowledge of the entire world. In Quran, it does not mention the Earth is flat. Paedophilia, sex-slaves and beating is not OK in Islam. Babies are not from blood clots, in Quran it states that babies are created from ‘disgusted liquid = liquid that came out same from men’s urine place’. That’s sentence you can read from sura Yaasin.

    Nissa

    October 5, 2008 at 2:10 am

  30. @Nissa: In Quran, it does not mention the Earth is flat.

    071.019 YUSUFALI: “‘And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), …”

    My carpets are flat. Actually, every carpet I have ever seen is flat. If you have a spherical carpet, please publish photos of it. Even if you do, though, I still won’t be convinced that Muhammad or the Arabs created spherical carpets. Plus, it would be hard to spread out a spherical carpet — it would roll.

    @Nissa: Paedophilia, sex-slaves and beating is not OK in Islam.

    In order … pedophilia:

    065.004 YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.


    This verse is in a section talking about divorce. So, women who have no courses (who have never menstruated) — that is, children — maybe be divorced (ergo, they may also therefore be married), but you must wait three months for the divorce to be official. The fact that Muhammad himself married a child confirms that child brides are allowed. And according to my dictionary, pedophilia is “sexual feelings directed toward children.” So yes, Muhammad was a pedophile, too. And so is Allah for promoting it.

    Sex slaves:

    004.024 YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

    This verse is talking about who men may have sex with. Right hand possessions = slaves/captives (not camels). Note that even if the slave/captive is married, the possessor may still have sex with them. It is re-inforced here:

    033.050 YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    And what does Bukhari say about slave girls?

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 89: Narrated Anas: The Prophet stayed for three days at a place between Khaibar and Medina, and there he consummated his marriage with Safiyya bint Huyay. I invited the Muslims to a banquet which included neither meat nor bread. The Prophet ordered for the leather dining sheets to be spread, and then dates, dried yogurt and butter were provided over it, and that was the Walima (banquet) of the Prophet. The Muslims asked whether Safiyya would be considered as his wife or as a slave girl of what his right hands possessed. Then they said, “If the Prophet screens her from the people, then she Is the Prophet’s wife but if he does not screen her, then she is a slave girl.” So when the Prophet proceeded, he made a place for her (on the camel) behind him and screened her from people.

    See that? If she is “screened” (wearing a burqa), then she is a wife, otherwise she is still a slave girl that his right hand possesses. I could go on here — I have at least 15 other things I could cite, but this should be PLENTY.

    Wife beating:

    004.034 SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    I switch off Yusuf Ali’s translation because he is a total apologist by adding “(lightly)” to the beating verse. Key points of this verse: If a man fears desertion (or in some translations: rebellion, disloyalty, ill-conduct, etc) from his wife (or wives), then he may beat her (them) until she is (they are) brought back in line and obeys him. Allah certainly is High and Great for this little gem. And also a misogynist. So is Muhammad.

    I’m going to stop here because I’ve been FAR too long-winded. Thanks for playing Stump the Infidel, Nissa. I’ve refuted your baseless and unsubstantiated claims with facts from Islam’s holiest texts. Unless you deny the Quranic verses are true. And if so, then Allah will send you to Hell as the Quran states because you may not selectively choose which verses to believe.

    Peace.

    Michael

    October 5, 2008 at 11:01 am

  31. Michael, I betcha she comes back with one of these arguments:

    – The translation you’re using is obviously wrong,
    – You must read it in Arabic to really understand it,
    – The hadith you are using are not authentic hadith, and you must only use the hadith that she approves of in order to make your point

    P.S. Yahsin says nothing about babies coming from the “place of urine.” Which is a moot point anyway. People knew babies came from sperm, which traveled through the penis, for over 1000 years before Mohammed came along. The Quran also says the sperm comes from somewhere between the backbone and pelvis (the kidneys), so he was wrong on that.

    kafirgirl

    October 5, 2008 at 11:25 am

  32. Also,

    Unless you deny the Quranic verses are true. And if so, then Allah will send you to Hell as the Quran states because you may not selectively choose which verses to believe.

    High five! That’s my favorite verse to cite =)

    kafirgirl

    October 5, 2008 at 11:25 am

  33. Oh my God. I know it’s million years after the fact and no one is ever going to read this, but you know that story Anand referenced earlier on in the comments about Mohammad and Moses and the number of times God wants us to pray?

    It’s ripped off from the Bible. Genesis, chapter 18, verses 22-33. Except that it’s Abraham, talking to God, negotiating down the number of righteous men there have to be in Sodom in order for God to not destroy the city.

    I mean, that is such blatant plagiarism right there. It’s just…wow.

    Crystal

    October 7, 2008 at 11:26 pm

  34. Damn! Good catch. It sure does sound just like it.

    Nobody else seems to have ever noticed this. ??!!

    watercat

    October 8, 2008 at 1:16 am

  35. Ooh nice, Crystal. I had no idea. I’ll have to look up the Bible verses now because I’m dying to see how closely they’re “borrowed” from.

    kafirgirl

    October 8, 2008 at 1:22 am

  36. dude, this is awesome…i am from Pakistan, a girl, seen the light….don’t believe in that crap anymore!! hallelujah! :)

    what blows my mind is the influence one man has had on the history of mankind….can’t get over it!!I wonder if at nights Mo ever thought about that? if he ever reflected on his actions…not that thats important or relevant…

    and thanks for the best interpretation of the verses like EVER…..seriously! I admire ur research and ur patience coz I can’t even read a full page of Quran anymore without getting completely bored and positively disgusted.

    keep up ur good work. U got a stalker! :)…(of the blog only)

    godissantaforadults

    October 22, 2008 at 10:29 pm

  37. [...] my stuff.  I wanted to give a quick shout out to the lastest Muslim apostate to leave a comment.  Godissantaforadults is another Pakistani ex-Muslim girl (high five!), and I hope she’ll comment with her own [...]

  38. U r so sweet to mention me like that! that was awesome…

    i just discovered ur website so I am still catching up..

    Deconversion story goes something like this…Mom is traditional, very conservative muslim; Dad is a liberal muslim (which BTW, now i call apologists…what a diff few months make!)Anyway, his interpretation of Quran for us grwoing up as we were learning about science and evolution etc was that u don’t have to believe in the stories and miralces of Quran as exact “happenings” but just take them for the moral value. And that for different ppl of diff ages in different eras …these words will have diff meaning as quran is supposed to the last divine revelation so it has to be this way.

    That was fine but for us in Pakistan who don’t speak Arabic I didn’t have a reason to think that its divinely inspired and to that my Dad’s answer was…well, I won’t go into the specifics but it was science revealed in quran is a miracle.

    Fast forward several months ago while I am trying to strengthen my faith by reading up and researching quran…I came across Richard Carrier’s article on science in quran. That was not the only thing. I had been interested in Intelligent Design and then I found about the Dover trial, Kenneth Miller…and then I read Hawkins, Sam Harris, C Hitchens etc and saw debates and lectures of S Weinberg, Hawkins…

    Plus, I did read quran a bit more and I realized that a god who created the universe, quantum physics, and other complexities of the galaxies and cosmos can’t really be telling the mankind that men are in charge of the women and that if they r rebellious, confine them and then beat them (4:34) and so many other ridiculous messages like that. It reads like bronze age mentality than a serious “God” who is really interested in our well being.

    Right now, I am reading about the evoltion of this God that we have created in our image (ie man’s image)…Karen Armstrong’s History of God.

    Its so awesome to realize what a sham the whole thing is and to break out of that mentality. I still am around muslim ppl who think things christian’s believe in are hilarious while the faiytales they believe in are 100% true…

    i am just happy to be out of the whole thing!! hahaha :)

    have loads of fun in pakistan. I love LAhore!! thats where I grew up! :)

    godissantaforadults

    October 24, 2008 at 12:40 pm

  39. sorry.. i forgot to

    HIGH FIVE!

    godissantaforadults

    October 24, 2008 at 12:41 pm

  40. Take care of yourself while you’re in Pakistan. I hope that your identity is not known to these Muslim fundamentalists.

    Norm

    October 26, 2008 at 4:16 pm

  41. parenthesis are used to divert the meaning to what had to be, for example in some sentences Mohammad talks as himself(not his pen name allah) and its translated with parenthesis like (tell that), although real text does not have it.

    abrasil

    December 8, 2008 at 12:16 pm

  42. Hmm, my Qur’an doesn’t say that. The translations must REALLY vary. My Qur’an roughly translates to
    “God is awesome and loves his muslims, which are also awesome. Also, those that don’t believe in Allah only don’t believe because their minds are sealed so they cannot believe. PS, those that don’t believe will be punished.”

    Akulshae

    December 11, 2008 at 7:37 pm

  43. kafirgirl,
    you said something that absolutely puzzles me in this day and age year 2009 why so many think this:
    “The Christian God, the Jewish God, and Allah are one and the same. And he’s a fairy tale.”

    ok, may be fairy tales, but if you study what is written in the three religions holy books, they ARE DIFFERNT GODS! Christians have trinity with Jesus, Jews reject this and have God named Yahweh where Jews are his chosen people, and finally Muslims Allah has differnt characteristics of both (no trinity, hates jews and Arabs are his choosen people).

    I am so bewildered how easy it is to study these religions and clearly see this, yet you make that statment, President Bush said same thing to effect “I believe christians and muslims worship same God”. Its not differential equations or rocket science. Its very super easy clear the religions teach about three totally differnt Gods with three differnt personalities and qualities. Anyways, I guess I will be forever shocked why this myth “same God worshipped in three religions” permeates the world. (note I am not attacking the fairy tale part).

    Jeff

    Jeff Grosso

    January 29, 2009 at 3:47 pm

  44. actually, it was study of the written books that led me to conclude that they are the same god, and that’s pretty widely held.

    Abraham is important to all 3 faiths, and Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet, if not the true One.

    I think you need to do a little more homework. Each religion evolved out of the other–and as such, has a very different “personality.”

    Bug Girl

    February 1, 2009 at 9:20 am

  45. @Bug Girl: Just because Muslims make the claim that it is the same god doesn’t mean that Jews or Christians accept their claim. The Catholic church certainly doesn’t accept that Muhammad was a prophet. (The Pope wanted to open a church in Saudi Arabia and was told he could only if he accepted Muhammad as a prophet — that is, converted to Islam.) Islam evolved more out of Judaism than Christianity, but still tries to hijack both faiths. Plus, Islam clearly changes the “facts” when it re-tells stories from Judaism and Christianity. To me, it is clearly not the same god (if you assume that God even exists).

    Michael

    February 3, 2009 at 8:22 pm


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